RJC in DC–Fred Thompson

Fred Thompson was the last candidate to speak at the 2008 RJC Candidates Forum. As a tribute to liberals, I will be doing the reviews backwards. Before going over the substance of Thompson’s remarks, which were in abundance, let’s get the nonsense out of the way.

Every joke about him seems to involve canines. One reporter referred to him as “Deputy Dog,” and Stephen Colbert (a candidate himself…as Don King says, “Only in America”) referred to Fred as an “Alpha Dog,” due to his prowess with the ladies. Also, the lazy, plodding, lumbering bassett hound in “Smokey and the Bandit” was named Fred.

Now for those who actually care about serious, intelligent matters, let’s discuss the real Fred Thompson. When people say that he acts like he did not always have a burning desire to be president, he replies, “Yes, you’re right. I didn’t spend my entire life wanting to be president.” Just because the man does not rant and rave, or give fire and brimstone speeches, does not mean he lacks passion or fire. He simply conducts himself with dignity and class, which more people should do.

http://tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/03/from-the-king-of-the-hill-to-the-white-house/

Having said that, the question would be if a southerner Christian driving a pickup truck could connect with a Jewish audience, many who were not from the South. Based on his performance at the forum, absolutely. Below are some of his remarks.

“As the last speaker of the day, I know I stand in the way of you and the refreshments. I’ll keep that in mind.”

“After hearing remarks from my spouse, I know I’m a comedown, there is nothing I can do about it.”

“Laws come from God, not government.”

“We (Americans) have shed more blood for other nations’ liberties.”

“The prosperity threat is the same old siren song of raising taxes.”

“The alternative minimum tax was supposed to affect 155 people. It affects 20 million people.”

“Under the left we will fall into a comfortable mediocrity and second rate status.”

“The liberal philosophy must be rejected at all costs.”

“This war will be with us long after Iraq is in the rearview mirror.”

“NATO is spending less and less on defense.”

“(With regards to) America and Israel, our cultural and religious ties are strong, our security interests are clear, and we share a common goal…peace.”

“Iran is the premier state sponsor of terrorism in the world today.”

“If we lose (in Iraq), we will have another Tehran, Gaza…another fundamentalist Islamic state.”

“We must do more to protect the next generation.”

“General Petraeus keeps warningus about Iran. We need to listen.”

“Lebanon is now a hostage state. Iran will not become a nuclear threat.”

“The nuclear option is never off the table.”

Senator Thompson then took questions, and I was the first person to ask him a question. I spoke quickly to pack many words in without droning on.

I stated, “Senator, it’s an honor sir.” He thanked me. I then continued.

“Senator, I am a republican blogger (yes, this was a shameful attempt at self promotion, and it worked) who understands that with freedom of the press comes responsibility. Are you willing to enforce the Bush Doctrine that anyone harboring or aiding terrorists is a terrorist, even if it means cracking down on our own cultural institutions? Two examples are Poison Ivy League universities doing Tea With Mussolini and Columbian Coffee with Armageddonijad, and our troops getting killed because their movements are being given up by the Jayson Blair Times (the crowd and the Senator cracked up at that point, where I said, “The Jewish fellow running that paper does not speak for me”)? How do you as a member of the media yourself balance freedom of speech with the fact that we cannot have our media getting our troops murdered, and we cannot have our students being lectured by a terrorist who belongs in Guantanamo Bay?”

Fred Thompson started out by wagging his finger at me in mock anger and indignation and said, “First of all, let me say that I resent being called a member of the media!”

The crowd erupted in laughter, and I said into the microphone, “I apologize.” The Senator then continued.

“I was once a member of the media. I did a little television and movies now and then. I will do what is necessary to keep the American people safe. Yes, I will put pressure on institutions that break the law. If they cross the line, I will get them. Political pressure can be applied, but so can market pressure. We believe in the free market, and we have a right to apply pressure. The wingnuts have a right to speak, but they fail to understand that normal Americans also have a right to speak. There are more of us, and we need to make our voices loud and clear that we will not tolerate violations of law. We have the power to vote with our wallets.”

I was thrilled by his answer, because he did not give the mealy mouthed tepid line about we cherish the Media’s right to absolute power under the first amendment to destroy anything else. Let them stop harassing my second amendment, and I might hold them in less miserable esteem. More questions followed from others.

One woman asked if there was such a thing as Moderate Arab governments. The Senator handled it deftly.

“Jordan is a moderate Arab government. Jordan is friendly. Saudi Arabia is not friendly.”

When asked a question about our violent culture, he replied, “Music and prime time television does factor in, but the big problem is the breakdown of the family. Blaming everything else is not the solution, and I am not going to legislate the second amendment.”

With regards to federalism, he stated, “People think a Federalist stance means a larger federal government. It doesn’t. I don’t like to use the phrase ‘states rights'”

When asked about the founding fathers, he pointed out that not everything is the same as back then. “For one, transportation and communication are different from when the founding fathers were around.” He explained that some issues do require flexibility with the changing times.

When asked about what joint operations the U.S. would undertake with Israel, in relation to a recent Israeli strike against Syria, Thompson was emphatic.

“Nobody running for President can reveal joint USA/Israeli strikes.”

For those who thought he was willing to pander to a Jewish audience, he laid down the law when asked about clemency for Jonathan Pollard.

“No. He spied on my country, and needs to serve out his term.”

Many in the audience, including myself, appreciated his candor. I also agree with his answer, to the consternation of others.

When asked about negotiating with North Korea, he replied, “North Korea has never lived up to any agreement.”

A softball question about Arthur Branch, and how they could beat Hillary, was answered humorously.

“I don’t like to brag…actually that’s not true, I do like to brag…When Arthur Branch is being warm, fuzzy, and lovable…that’s me. When Arthur Branch is being mean and surly…that’s not me.”

Thompson then went on to explain correctly that framing the election around Hillary is a mistake. It has to be about our ideas and principles, and when we adhere to conservative principles, we win. He said,  “I refuse to move to the middle like Hillary. I stick to conservative principles. Don’t react to Hillary, we have to focus on ourselves. The election is us and the people, not us versus Hillary.”

Sticking with that theme, he said, “We must elect judges who interpet the constitution, not make it up.”

When asked about Reagan as the geat communicator, Thompson replied, “Reagan was an actor, but that is not why he was a great communicator. Reagan was a great communicator because he was believable. He was believable because he truly believed.”   

When he was done, he did again warn the audience that he was perfectly willing to stay around, but that the refreshments had arrived if they didn’t. Many stayed. I managed to meet him personally. When I asked to take a picture of him, and he saw my disposable camera that I buy at the grocery store and throw out after using it, he replied, “Now that’s my kind of camera.” His wife was near us, so I asked that she be in the picture as well, and she happily obliged.

I have to say that while his intial remarks were funny, I was worried he might get off to a slow start when the laughter subsided. Fred is simply not flashy. Yet he got stronger as his speech went on. The crowd liked him, and respected that he was honest with us.

Fred is simply a very likable fellow, and I went into his speech not sure of what to make of him. Now I can say that heis presidential timber, and deserves his status as a top tier candidate.

To steal a line from “Die Harder,” all I can say is, with regards to the presidential primaries, “Back ’em, stack ’em, and rack ’em.”

This Alpha Dog has little bark, but serious bite.

Go get ’em Fred.

eric   

55 Responses to “RJC in DC–Fred Thompson”

  1. Awesome post! Enjoyed reading it.

  2. […] Blacktygrrrr was at the Republican Jewish Congress, and so was Fred Thompson. I’ll allow his words to do the talking in this shamelessly-ripped-off excerpt: Senator Thompson then took questions, and I was the first person to ask him a question. I spoke quickly to pack many words in without droning on. […]

  3. Carole says:

    So, new deal?

  4. anon says:

    Dear #2, too bad security there didn’t have a Taser!

  5. Craig says:

    Eric,
    So don’t be shy- POST YOUR PICTURE WITH THE THOMPSONS!

  6. A few thoughts…

    “Laws come from God, not government.”

    Really? Funny, I could have sworn that I never once saw God on the floor of the House.

    “Under the left we will fall into a comfortable mediocrity and second rate status.”

    Under the left? When the heck has that ever happened? I don’t know about other planets, but America is the most rightwing First World country on this one! Maybe we should check with the Scientologists on that one…

    “This war will be with us long after Iraq is in the rearview mirror.”

    What war? I don’t recall congress declaring war. Ooooh, that right – he means the war on _____ (fill in the blank).

    “Iran is the premier state sponsor of terrorism in the world today.”

    Gee, and all this time I thought it was Saudi Arabia. I must be MAD!

    “If we lose (in Iraq), we will have another Tehran, Gaza…another fundamentalist Islamic state.”

    Get ready for another fundamentalist Islamic state, ’cause it’s a comin’! (Good job, Bush)

    “The nuclear option is never off the table.”

    Nuclear option? What, now we have Nuclear Preemtive War? What’s next? Preemtive Armageddon?

    “Saudi Arabia is not friendly.”

    Oh good. He remembered Saudi Arabia after all! Though, “not friendly” seems just a tad bit (re: ridiculously) understated.

    “People think a Federalist stance means a larger federal government. It doesn’t. I don’t like to use the phrase ’states rights’”

    They do? He doesn’t? What the heck was that?

    “For one, transportation and communication are different from when the founding fathers were around.” He explained that some issues do require flexibility with the changing times.

    Hey, maybe he does understand reality and the constitution! Yeah Fred!

    “Nobody running for President can reveal joint USA/Israeli strikes.”

    Oh well, I guess only he and Israel can even know reality. American and Israel – Secretive Together.

    “North Korea has never lived up to any agreement.”

    Never? Not even once? Not even one little teeny tiny time?

    “I refuse to move to the middle like Hillary. I stick to conservative principles. Don’t react to Hillary, we have to focus on ourselves. The election is us and the people, not us versus Hillary.”

    Ya’ know, I heard about this comment yesterday and I think it’s rather brilliant. All this running against Hillary is all well and fine IF Hillary wins the nomination, but given that the GOP field is such a disappointment to the Right, you’d think they’d spend more time courting their base than running as lesser evils. Fred will get big points for this strategy. Mark my words.

    “We must elect judges who interpet the constitution, not make it up.”

    Make what up? The constitution?

    “Reagan was an actor, but that is not why he was a great communicator. Reagan was a great communicator because he was believable. He was believable because he truly believed.”

    Yeah, the HUAC thought so too.

    I really fail to see what’s so substantial and serious about these candidates. McCain maybe – but the rest of ’em? Nah.

    Oh, by the way, the substantial and serious Sam Brownback (who thinks Hip Hop deserves substantial and serious Senatorial consideration) dropped out, but just the same, I’m sure we’d all love to hear his substantial and serious remarks. 😉

    Oh, and heck yeah – I wanna see that picture! I heard Fred Thompson is like 8’3″! I wanna see if you make it up to his knees! 😉

    JMJ

  7. micky2 says:

    Jersey said;
    “Under the left? When the heck has that ever happened?

    Read the phrase again, he said it “will”.
    He did not say it “has”

    Jersey said;
    “What war? I don’t recall congress declaring war. Ooooh, that right – he means the war on _____ (fill in the blank). ”

    (moonbats that think they’re funny or smart)

    Jerky said;
    “Gee, and all this time I thought it was Saudi Arabia. I must be MAD!”

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/State_Sponsors_of_Terrorism-Iran.html

    Iran remained the “premier state sponsor of terrorism” in 1996.

    http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3871

    For 25 years running Iran has been the world’s” premier sponsor of terrorism.” Iranian-backed terrorists murdered 241 US Marines in Beirut in 1983, 19 US servicemen at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996, and mounting numbers of US troops in Iraq today.

    http://www.fas.org/news/usa/1997/04/bmd970501b.htm

    Wilcox said that Iran remains the” premier state sponsor of terrorism “in 1996. A recent verdict in a German court dramatically showed Iran to be a flagrant …

    Well jersey, better head down to your nearest shrink.

    Jersey said;
    Get ready for another fundamentalist Islamic state, ’cause it’s a comin’! (Good job, Bush)

    If you say so Jersey, with more wonderful attitudes like yours , this scenario would be likely. Thank God we actually have positive and hopeful people in this world.
    Its easy to see disater at and around every corner. This mindset requires little intellectual taxation and is the thinking method easiest for the laziest people on earth to perform.
    To see something that needs to be done and actually do it requires a person with conviction and not contempt. Those with comtempt are a dime a dozen. They sit back and point fingers and ramble off the could of, should of, would of.
    Quite frankly they are just a bunch of pathetic punks who take pleasure in other peoples failures all the while acting as if they always had a better answer to the situation. When nothing could be further from the truth.
    You remind me of the drunken fat slob who critsizes the athlete busting his ass to actually accomplish something while you sit on the sidelines with beer and mustard falling on your pot belly and scream at him about what you think he’s doing wrong.

    As far as the rest of your post goes,
    It is one of your lamest attempts ever at trying to be funny or to any real point seeing as much of it is just a bunch spiteful uninvestigated uninformed 5th grade ramblings with no real context other than opinion based on hatred (again)

  8. Jersey McJones says:

    Micky, I said, “Under the left? When the heck has that ever happened?” to which you said, “Read the phrase again, he said it “will”. He did not say it “has””

    #1. What I remains relevent.

    #2 You’re nit-picking again.

    “Iran remained the “premier state sponsor of terrorism” in 1996.”

    That’s because Bush and the GOP are the butt slaves of the Saudi princes. There’s never been an Iranian terrorist attack on anyone. It’s all a load of dung. Yes, they support Israel’s troublemaking enemies, and for that they should be scorned. But to call them the premier state sponsor of terrorism is to lie, to be stupid, or to be completely ignorant of facts and reality. Arabian shieks and imams are THE premier sponsor of most of the terrorism in the world. To deny that is to be stupid.

    “If you say so Jersey, with more wonderful attitudes like yours , this scenario would be likely. Thank God we actually have positive and hopeful people in this world.”

    Yeah, right. We can just want success in Iraq, or pretend it’s coming, or be optinistic and posisitve about it and it will come, right? Silliness. Iraq is a failure, and you just can’t be man enough to admit that your crowd was wrong to go in and wrong in going about it.

    JMJ

  9. micky2 says:

    J said;
    #2 You’re nit-picking again.

    Would you explain what anyone should call what you were doing ? HA!
    Nit pickin like an old drunk grandma, thats what.
    You came out the bull(S) pen nit picking. Pot calling the kettle black ? (Obviously.)

    You said;
    “Micky, I said, “Under the left? When the heck has that ever happened?” to which you said, “Read the phrase again, he said it “will”. He did not say it “has””

    YOU SAID HAS! as if it has happened
    Eric was implying IF! and WILL IF !

    You put and changed the context so you could go forward with your idiotic rendition.
    I can read the difference in what Eric meant and what you would like to imply he said.

    Jersey said;
    There’s never been an Iranian terrorist attack on anyone.

    JERSEY ! Are you really that lost ? That you would actually say and believe that ?

    To deny factual documented accounts of history with live humans to testify(not idiotic idealistic opinions) to the validity of it is not only stupid, its frightfully retarded.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2000/iranian_embassy_siege/rear.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6251167.stm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Embassy_Siege

    http://www.jimmycarterlibrary.org/documents/hostages.phtml

    Now you are absolutly being 100% disengenuous or really freeking high.

    And most of all, re- study the english language. Thompson said “TODAY ”
    The Arabs may have been at it longer, but Iran is the PREMIER TODAY !
    READ THE POST AGAIN!

    You said;
    Yeah, right. We can just want success in Iraq, or pretend it’s coming, or be optinistic and posisitve about it and it will come, right?

    NO ! NOT RIGHT !
    Thats not what I said ! That is not anyway what I said, at all ! You said what you said.

    This is what you do. You take things out of context or repeat it back with your interptetation of it and then put a question mark at the end of the statement as if that is what the person was saying.
    Its old and stupid and will never work with me, ever !
    You are truly a couple quarts low dude ! Really!
    You cant be too bright if thats how stupid you think everyone else is.

    Also , I have to address your constant references to manliness.

    I am man enough to at least have the balls to dig up facts and references and prove to prove you wrong on a daily basis.
    A real man backs up his talk, this is what I do.
    You do not. You just spew, spew and spew garbage with nothing to ever prove your ridiculous and insane statements.
    Untill you can actually make your pitiful case with something more than empty vacant statements, you look like a child with no clue.
    And if you keep bringing up the “MAN” thing , its only deserving of those reading to explain to us why it is such an issue with you. ( something on your chest ?)
    Theres guys that talk a lot of crap behind the keyboard, and thats one thing.
    But when you cant even prove your CRAP ” WITH” the keyboard that is just simply really wimpy , sad and pathetic.
    Once again you have done me the favor of being the PREMIER example of everything that is wrong with America today.
    You are an embaressment to the country.
    To have anger and dissent is the American thing to do, or part of it.
    But to totally deny and make up lies about atrocities that have happened to our citizens is sickening.

  10. Jersey McJones says:

    Micky, for a man who’s has ostenisbly been through and done the things that you have, it’s amazing how pedantic you can be.

    I do not count the Iran-Hostage event as an act of terrorism. It was an act of self-preservation as the Iranians feared American interference with the revolution.

    Come back down to Earth, Micky. It misses you.

    JMJ

  11. micky2 says:

    The irony I cant help but bring up is that you are of the same mentallity as Mahmoud Amadingdong.
    He denies the holocaust and you deny that him and his country (a terrorist state) have never launched a terrorist attack on anyone.

    You have truly exited the realm of logic

  12. micky2 says:

    Your snidness does not prove your claims.
    Just in the last two months we have aressted and detained and killed iranian terrorists in Iraq, along with finding Iranian weapons.

    Read and weep.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0729/p07s01-wome.html

    You said that they have never launched an attack on ANYONE! ANYONE?
    You are just wrong and misguided to the hilt.

    As far as pedantic goes, you can apply what ever you want to me.
    But at least I can back up what you may view as trivial.
    You cant back up squat. (again)

    I can prove that Iran has launced attacks on many.
    You cannot prove that they have launched attacks on no one. PERIOD!

    Jersey said;
    “I do not count the Iran-Hostage event as an act of terrorism. It was an act of self-preservation as the Iranians feared American interference with the revolution”.

    What you count it as is irrelevant to to the fact that it was conducted by terrorist, in a terroristic fashion. With Carter around, Iranians had absolutly nothing to fear at all, so the statement of fear on the Iranians part is a load of Jersey.
    You could call it a sock hop if you want. That does not make you right.
    But then again, I forgot, your word is final, right o great one ?

    Once again you egotistically try to patronize me and take it upon yourself to assume that the whole world sides with you by saying ” it misses you”
    Who are you now ? Mother nature ? Some telekenetic wonder ?

  13. Jersey McJones says:

    Micky Ahmedloonyjad has about as much real power in Iran as you do. Letr’s get real here.

    As for who is and isn’t a terrorist in Iraq, that’s a subjective matter. Iranians are there, they’re helping the Shi-a militias, it’s in their interest, it should come as no surprise. The unmitigated terrorists operating in Iraq are mostly sunni Saudis. So get your facts straight.

    Iran took the hostages as a shield against American intervention in the revolution. It worked. The hostages came back alive. Carter may have taken a seroious political beating for it, but in the end, he did the right thing. Carter, like most people at the time, couldn’t se the future in Iran. The revolution was comprised of pretty muc hevery political faction in Iran, including many monarchists. There were leftists, rightists, communists, fascists – you name it. In the end, the mullahs took over the movement. That’s the thing about revolutions – you never know what the outcome may be. Just ask the French.

    JMJ

    ps – Just out of curiousity; when the heck are you going to stop it with the ridiculous ire and frothing at everything I say?

  14. anon says:

    when you convert to his form of logic?!?

  15. micky2 says:

    Jersey said;
    Micky Ahmedloonyjad has about as much real power in Iran as you do. Letr’s get real here.”

    Get real and face the fact that he IS the voice of the Ayatollahs.
    Him having power is irrelevant to the real danger of the people he speaks for

    You said;
    So get your facts straight. (at least I have facts)

    Here are real facts jersey not your interpretations
    http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0501-02.htm

    One who leads an armed group that kills civilians as a means of political intimidation
    One who targets civilian airliners and ships

    One who leads a group that engages in kidnapping and murder

    One who uses rape and murder for political purposes

    One who designates civilians as “soft targets” to be attacked in the cause of political
    transformation –

    One who facilitates a massacre of civilians

    GOT IT JERSEY?

    Jersey said;
    Carter may have taken a seroious political beating for it,
    (and he feels just terrible about it)

    So did the victims, but it was physical

    Jersey said;
    Just out of curiousity; when the heck are you going to stop it with the ridiculous ire and frothing at everything I say?
    NOT TODAY!

    No one else on this blog says anything remotly as ridiculous as you.
    You are the court jester

    I already explained my position on you.
    I will attack you every chance i get.
    My mission is only to prove you wrong every chance I get.
    My mission is to use you as an example of everything that is wrong with America.
    My mission is to make you look bad, and its easy, I enjoy it.

    But dont get to full of yourself.
    There are a few out there like you , but at least they have the brains to split after they have their asses handed to them more than once.

  16. Jersey McJones says:

    Micky, you obviously don’t understand the first thing about Iran. The “president” of Iran is a powerless figurehead (kinda like the “governor” of Texas).

    So I retract my treatise – please keep attacking. At least you’re pretty good at it. There are more than a “few out there like” me. So, I’m all for it.

    JMJ

  17. micky2 says:

    Look , prove your point.
    If you cant then you are demented for thinking you some how have come out on top.
    You only come out looking like a jerk!

    The fact of the matter is not whether he has any power or not.
    The fact is that he voices the intentions and sentiments of the ayatollas, for the second time, do you get it ?

    I NEVER SAID HE HAD POWER! PLEASE! SHOW ME WHERE I SAID HE HAD POWER! You can bang that toy drum all you want, you are off subject on purpose just so it appears that you know what you are talking about.

    Here it is again in case you missed it the first time
    lok and read closly, are you ready? focus, here it comes.

    I SAID; (from post #16)
    “”Get real and face the fact that he IS the voice of the Ayatollahs.
    Him having power is irrelevant to the real danger of the people he speaks for””

    So you can blow out all this conclusionary crap you want, it just makes you look weak and needy and pathetic.
    Anyone who has read the last few posts can clearly see that I made my point and proved it and yet you still harp on it as if I never said anything, just so you can walk around with your chest out full of false pride.

    You showed nothing to me but your own opinions and beliefs again.

    You have nothing,nothing, nothing to back up any of your idiotic looser claims.

    Its called mental masturbation, its just you and your beliefs,as always.

    Once again, got anything to back up your claims ?

    Put up or shut up.

  18. anon says:

    micky 2, Ahmadinejad is extremely unpopular for a variety of reasons; if he runs for president again in 2009, he will almost certainly be defeated. He does not command the Iranian armed forces and he does not determine Iranian foreign policy.
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ05Ak01.html
    Like two peas in a pod: Ahmadinejad and Bush
    http://thedaily.washington.edu/article/2007/10/18/likeTwoPeasInAPodAhmadinejadAndBush

  19. micky2 says:

    Both anon and jersey dont get it.

    It doesnt matter if donald duck is the president of Iran, or if he is popular or not.
    I am well awre of the recent student protests and the countries younger population not being too crazy about him.
    Both of you need to realize that no matter who is the mouth piece the message is the same. Mahmoud is simply a vocal extention and spokesman for the clerics and the ayatollahs. It is also not the president who is behind the proliferation of Iranian nukes, it is the clerics and the Ayatollahs who are operating the purse strings for the project.
    It is the clerics and the Ayatollas who give marching orders to the Qods and national gaurdsman that are infiltrating Iraq.
    I’m not as disconnected as you would care to believe.

    So please already , drop it and lets get back to the fact that Iran is a terrorist state and has been supplying weapons and operatives to perform terrorist acts on Iraqis and American soldiers.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-

    dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901761.html
    Iranian personnel have established safe houses throughout southern Iraq. They monitor the movement of coalition forces, tend weapons caches, facilitate cross-border travel of clerics, smuggle munitions into Iraq and recruit individuals as intelligence sources. Presumably, Tehran has recruited networks within U.S. military bases and civilian compounds that could be activated on short notice. Iran is also believed by regional intelligence agencies to have armed and trained as many as 40,000 Iraqis to prevent an unlikely rollback of Shiite control.

    http://counterterrorismblog.org/2007/10/gis_hunt_irans_terrorist_surro.php

    Petraeus’ broadside wasn’t an isolated incident. In recent weeks, the military command in Baghdad has stepped up its offensive — both public and tactical — against Iranian-backed “special groups militias” south of Baghdad, which have led to dozens being killed or captured. The military has also emphasized any seizure of “Iranian-made” weapons, such as mortars, IEDs and hand grenades, no matter how small the cache.

    The Iranians being captured in Iraq are not wearing any uniform identifying them as anything other than iraqi citizens,
    This is one of terrorists main defenses. They are not bound by ant international law that requires a combatent to display his alegiance.
    This is fact.
    We have a number of Iranian operatives in custody that were caught on the field wearing civilian attire and shooting at or planning attacks on Iraqis or Americans.
    Including one of their Generals whos name escapes me right now

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/05/protected.terrorists/index.html?section=cnn_latest

    The U.S. State Department considers the MEK a terrorist organization — meaning no American can deal with it; U.S. banks must freeze its assets; and any American giving support to its members is committing a crime.

  20. 5secondrule says:

    Thus, the goal of the Bush Administration is not merely to prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon, but to prevent Iran from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon. That’s a very different goal. It was fairly clear before that this was the true U.S. policy, but now President Bush has done us the service of making it explicit. The Iranians have long charged that the goal of U.S. policy was to prevent them from acquiring knowledge. As it turns out, the Iranians were right.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/now-you-know-bushs-goal_b_69151.html

  21. micky2 says:

    We cant let them get one step further on either goal

  22. anon says:

    the last time Iran attacked a neighbor was in the 17th century. As per 19 above, first link. Don’t you think diplomacy is a better option than pre-emptive strikes out of fear. Violence should be our absolute last option, once we’ve exhausted all other avenues.

  23. micky2 says:

    They’re attacking us in Iraq right now, no matter what your sources say.
    They are supplying weapons to insurgenys.
    It is for all practical purposes a war with Iran by proxy.
    Of course no one wants to go to war. But they are not being very co-operative.
    As recently as last week we were told by the mouthpiece that they will continue their program, sanctions or not.
    The whole world is behind us on this one, and does not want to see a nuclear iran

  24. micky2 says:

    Anon,
    No attacks on neighbors since the 17th century ?
    Theres an awful lot of data to contradict that

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5274374.stm

    Iran ‘attacks Romanian oil rig’

    A Romanian oil company says one of its rigs stationed in the Gulf has come under fire from Iranian troops.
    A spokesman for the firm GSP said Iranian troops had seized the rig after firing from a nearby ship, and GSP lost contact with its 26 workers there.

    http://usatoday.feedroom.com/?fr_story=FRsupt213559&rf=sitemap

    Aug. 30 – Iraq has strongly criticized Iranian artillery barrages against Kurdish guerrillas in border areas, warning that if such shelling continues it will negatively affect relations.

    http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/mcnair41/41irq.htm

    Iran Attacks an Iraqi Nuclear Reactor
    In September 1980, at the onset of the Iran-Iraq War, the Israeli Chief of Army Intelligence had publicly urged the Iranians to bomb the key Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor near Baghdad. Co-located at the site is the Iraq Nuclear Research Center where Israeli intelligence believed the first Arab atomic bomb was going to be assembled.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_n2129_v87/ai_6285405

    PRESIDENT’S STATEMENT,

    OCT. 19, 1987 Acting pursuant to my authority as Commander in Chief, U.S. naval vessels at 7:00 a.m. EDT today struck an Iranian military platform in international waters in the central Persian Gulf. This platform has been used to assist in a number of Iranian attacks against nonbelligerent shipping. Iran’s unprovoked attacks upon U.S. and other nonbelligerent shipping, and particularly deliberate laying of mines and firing of Silkworm missiles which have hit U.S. flag vessels, have come in spite of numerous messages from the Government of the United States to the Government of Iran warning of the consequences.

    Looks to me like they’ve been pretty busy attacking neighbors and everything else.

  25. anon says:

    Putin Is Said To Offer Idea On Standoff Over Iran
    Nazila Fathi, New York Times, October 18, 2007
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/18/world/middleeast/18iran.html

    Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin, proposed a new way to help resolve the standoff over Iran’s nuclear program during an extraordinary meeting with Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the country’s chief nuclear negotiator on Wednesday. The negotiator, Ali Larijani, told reporters that Putin, who was granted an audience with Ayatollah Khamenei on Tuesday evening, “offered a special proposal.” Neither the Iranians nor the Russians would disclose any details, but Larijani said the Iranian side was studying it.

    Divisions In Europe May Thwart U.S. Objectives On Iran
    Robin Wright, Washington Post, Thursday, October 18, 2007; A20
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/17/AR2007101702211.html

    European governments are deeply divided over how far and how fast to go in imposing new sanctions against Iran, in what could undermine a new U.S. effort to mobilize allies to act outside of the United Nations, according to European officials.

    At a meeting in Brussels on Monday, European Union foreign ministers agreed to consider modest steps but not necessarily the kind of dramatic moves that Washington is now considering, the officials said.

  26. Jersey McJones says:

    Micky, if you applied the same standards to the US, we’d be the abut the worst terrorist state on Earth.

    Iran acts in it’s self-interests just like everyone else.

    JMJ

  27. micky2 says:

    Jersey said.
    Iran acts in it’s self-interests just like everyone else.

    Hey ! who said you werent too bright !

  28. micky2 says:

    Besides that the arguement/debate is over.
    And so what you do, you start to transfer oner to another subject that was irrelevant to the first subject.

    But if I must ,I will explain to you that their interest is far different from ours.

    And quite frankly jersey , I can already tell where this one is going because we have been there before.
    And I dont feel like putting up with your insane apologistic justifications for radical muslims.

    Hitler and Stalin acted in their own self interest also.

    If you want to pick a fight, at least have the common sense to pick one that you stand a chance of winning.
    Th majority of the world does not want a nuclear Iran
    I have already made many of my claims legit by doing my homework, as seen above.
    You and your buddy anon got shot down on that one, and so now you disregard your ass wooping and try to deflect to and mention some other lunatic fringe belief.

    You say more nasty things about our country than anyone I have ever known. I’m not exagerating, I mean it.
    But still you stay here.
    I will assume that in your case its because the good outweighs the bad.
    And if my assumption is correct, then why is it that you never mention (or hardly ever) any of the beautiful things that you and i should be grateful for?
    Ans so if I’m wrong and you are truly as pissed off about everything as you say you are , why dont you just freeking pack it up and leave ?
    Why do you want to live somewhere where you are constantly angry , contemptuous and unhappy ?

  29. jake says:

    The U.S. backed Shaw ruled Iran as an absolute monarch, completely eliminating all previous democratic reforms. The Shah received billions of dollars from the British and American oil companies (five U.S. companies) in exchange for granting them new oil concessions. His undemocratic regime maintained absolute dictatorial control of the nation by the continued U.S. subsidizing of his Army and his hated secret police, the SAVAK. For 25 years the despised ruler lived in luxurious palaces while the Iranian people received almost nothing from the lucrative oil industry. The U.S. and Britain were perfectly happy with this arrangement. They would continue to support the dictator as long as the oil revenues continued. The U.S. and Britain had absolutely no concern or regrets that they had replaced a democratic government with a dictatorship. Their only concern was the oil.

  30. micky2 says:

    Jake ?

    If you are going to use other peoples work at least have the decency to post the link.
    I found this while investigating your last post

    Darrell Williams
    October 19, 2007
    In 1951 Iran had a democracy. Mohammed Mossadegh was the first democratically elected Prime Minister in Iran. Before his election, the Anglo-Iranian Oil Co., the predecessor of British Petroleum, had concessions for all of Iran’s oil industry. Only a small percent of the revenues were being retained by the Iranian government, the major profits were going directly to Britain. Prime Minister Mossadegh was strongly opposed to this exploitation of Iran’s natural resources by another nation. One of his first acts upon becoming Prime Minister, was to try to obtain an agreement with the British to share the oil revenues 50-50 with Iran. This was the standard percentage in most oil company contracts. When Britain refused, Mossadegh nationalized the entire Iranian oil industry. In 1953, in retaliation, the British and the U.S. blockaded Iran and cut off all foreign aid. This created a disaster for Iran because the couldn’t sell any oil. The U.S. then launched an anti-Mossadegh undercover propaganda campaign in Iran. They paid Iranian newspapers to publish anti-Mossadegh stories based on false documents, accusing him of being associated with the local Communist Party. The civil unrest and CIA instigated riots resulted in the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister. He was quickly replaced by Shah Reza Pahlazi.

    The U.S. backed Shaw ruled Iran as an absolute monarch, completely eliminating all previous democratic reforms. The Shah received billions of dollars from the British and American oil companies (five U.S. companies) in exchange for granting them new oil concessions. His undemocratic regime maintained absolute dictatorial control of the nation by the continued U.S. subsidizing of his Army and his hated secret police, the SAVAK. For 25 years the despised ruler lived in luxurious palaces while the Iranian people received almost nothing from the lucrative oil industry. The U.S. and Britain were perfectly happy with this arrangement. They would continue to support the dictator as long as the oil revenues continued. The U.S. and Britain had absolutely no concern or regrets that they had replaced a democratic government with a dictatorship. Their only concern was the oil.

    Does this sound familiar?

  31. Jersey McJones says:

    It’s quite explanative, though.

    JMJ

  32. micky2 says:

    For some reason the link wont post.
    You can find the rest of the article in “American Chronicle; Oil, Politics,Religion.

    The point is this.
    First of all this guy is like Hersey, he has nothing good to say about Bush, so you can expect the article to fall off the left bank.
    He makes the absurd assertion that its Americas fault for the shape Iran is in now.
    Instead of holding the Iranians responsable and accountable for there own screw ups, its Americas fault. Typical lib, blame it on your country.
    And if the point Jake is trying to make is so great , why wouldnt he just give full disclosure to the author and link ?
    All mitigating and convicting claims in the article are only speculation and opinion.

  33. micky2 says:

    Sorry about the Hersey, Jersey.

  34. jake says:

    because it wouldn’t post for me either. my God Sir, relax.

  35. micky2 says:

    BS jake
    I got the name of the author and the paper in their manually.
    You made no attempt at any reference to anything at all.

    If you drop the link and the paragraph at the same time , neither will post.

    Its really pretty simple to just type in the credit. It took me all of 5 seconds

  36. jake says:

    “For some reason the link wont post.
    You can find the rest of the article in “American Chronicle; Oil, Politics,Religion.”
    See you figured out the same problem I had as I was trying to post and not be late for work. I apologize for not posting the author in the alloted amount of time, but you made the connection yourself. Goodjob.

  37. jake says:

    Also our 25 years of iranian support covers much more than just Bush…not trying to degrade one man but to show the pattern. I like to look at patterns and get beyond partisan bias.

  38. jake says:

    micky2
    that’s right I admitted I didn’t enter it, was late for work if you would have waited it would have been corrected. you need a vacation. this is no longer fun just annoying.

  39. jake says:

    micky2 have you heard of anal-retentive, relax, mt God can you look at anything without it being an attack. Breathe please take a long deep breath. Not everyone is trying to harm you or Bush.

  40. jake says:

    If we lose the right to question our past actions, we are doomed to repeat them.

  41. jake says:

    Also did you ever think that I might be disabled and it takes me longer than you healthy folk even to enter a few words. But no worries because I’ll just go find people who like the fun of debate.

    So Micky2 does it feel good to win cause God knows thats how your gonna see my departure. So sad, because I can prove with facts just like you crave.

  42. micky2 says:

    The article made your opinion obvious.

    Disabled ?
    Now I’ve heard it all

    Jake said;
    God can you look at anything without it being an attack.

    I know contradiction when i see it

    Have you ever heard of cranial detention ?
    It would be a paradox for you if you could read it.
    When you find it, please supply the link.

    And by the way, do you always over compensate for things that are supposed to be an honest mistake ?
    5 posts to say what ?
    That you couldnt find 5 seconds to put in a name ?

  43. jake says:

    your sensitivity is overwhelming, secondary progressive MS, yes honestly. I have to take breaks because my muscles give out.

  44. jake says:

    so sorry that my breaks are judged by your views of how someone should enter a comment.

  45. jake says:

    You cannot even tell when someone is being truthful.

  46. jake says:

    May God heal your heart.

  47. micky2 says:

    Look jake,
    I have all the compasion in the world for those who are sick.
    But it does not excuse you from being full of it.
    But if you are able to do all this posting and go to work as you say, typing in an authors name should not be a problem.

    And as far as a pattern goes.
    Iran has a nasty little pattern of its own that it should take the blame for.

    And as far as sensitivity goes. I believe you were the one to begin with anal references. And then ask for my heart to be healed.( Confusing to say the least.)
    Previously I made no such derogatory references to you.

    This whole thread started with jersey trying to BS everyone again with his distorted assertions of history.
    I proved his rendition of Irans standing to be wrong.
    the rest of this thread was just a useless back and forth of missed points and false arguements and people trying to pretend I said something I didnt.

    Good night, and if you truly are sick Jake, my prayers wont be in vain

  48. jake says:

    your prayers are not in Vain, promise.

  49. jake says:

    FYI, rehabilitation hospital resident, non-verbal and no BS either. Now you know how I can work. Life isn’t always a simple black and white answer. Hope this helps clear things up.

  50. micky2 says:

    In order to clear things up even further, I never ever see anything as just black and white. This leads me to lot of inner conflict and mind boggling confusion at times.
    For I choose to see everyone as a complex array of personality traits and character attributes as a result of life experiences that shape and mold that individual to be what they are.
    With all our intricate properties we are all very special but not that different in the long run.
    In order to get around this mind boggling confusion, I myself and I suspect alot of others sadly resort to generalizations.
    This makes navigating the endless types of people out there a little easier.
    And so as a result ,myself and a large portion of others sometimes end up n compromising and embaressing predicaments.
    I apologize if you have become a victim of this form of ignorance on my part or anyone elses.
    But I still find it hard to believe that you could not of taken and extra few seconds to put in a few words.
    I could be wrong, but I dont think I am at fault for expecting this out of anyone. Especially you since you seem to be very proficiant and capable at getting your point across most recently.
    But I could be wrong.

  51. Lola says:

    SO SAD FRED DROPPED OUT 🙁

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