Today is Good Friday, a day for Christians to focus on peace and love. In today’s political climate, I have some solutions to help everybody engage in more civilized discourse. While the means might not fit well with the peace and love train, the end result is a better country.
Not everybody will like my methods, but that does not make me wrong.
The easy cases do not need to be analyzed. The man who threatened Eric Cantor must do hard jail time. The same goes for whoever mailed white powder to Anthony Weiner.
The harder cases involve speech. There is no absolute right to free speech. The Supreme Court over the years has allowed limitations. Yelling “fire” in a crowded theatre is the most known limitation.
Yelling death threats is illegal. So is inciting riots. Irving Feiner took his case to the Supreme Court when he was arrested for getting a crowd whipped up after calling President Harry Truman a “champagne sipping bum.” In the case of the U.S. vs. Feiner, Feiner lost 6-3.
We can argue about where the line gets drawn, but I am more interested in dealing with people who do cross the line. With public and private space, the situation has to be treated differently.
The public space is the town square. The village idiot can ramble there as long as he wants provided that there are no riots being incited. Public spaces are often cordoned off with rope lines and protected by police officers. This is unfortunate but necessary.
A tea party attendee shouted words at Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina. He was behind the rope line in the public space. Had he gone beyond the rope line, he would be in private space, where the dynamics would change.
He is alleged to have spat upon Congressman Clyburn. If he deliberately did this, he has invaded private space. If he is simply an excitable talker who accidentally had spittle fly out of his mouth, then that is different. Our criminal justice system is not based on politics. It is based on intent. Intentional bad behavior gets a harsher penalty than unintentional bad behavior. Murder I can get the death penalty while criminally negligent homicide due to something such as driving while intoxicated would get a much lighter sentence. Mens rea is what matters in determining culpability.
Some on the left say that they trust the Congressmen more than the tea party people. The Congressmen are liberal minorities who fought for civil rights. They are sympathetic figures. Many of the tea party attendees are angry and caucasian, and therefore less sympathetic. It is for this precise reason that the benefit of the doubt be given to the tea party people. The least sympathetic among us must be given the presumption of innocence. The Old Testament (I am well aware that American law supersedes biblical law) clearly states that justice cannot automatically favor the poor and punish the rich. Liberals are obsessed with “fairness” and “social justice,” but justice is not about forcing equality and fairness.
Additionally, it is better to let 1000 guilty men go free than punish one Richard Jewell or Duke Lacrosse player. Richard Jewell died an innocent but broken man at age 44, as many people to this day still think he was guilty of setting a bomb at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.
It is not what we believe. It is what we can prove. There is broad agreement that when one moves from public to private space, they are given less latitude as safety concerns become paramount.
So what do we do with people that invade private space?
What do we with college students who shout down conservative speakers (outside of the designated public space zone), throw pies, or try to rush the stage?
What do we do with Code Pink protesters who try to Rush Karl Rove and make a citizen’s arrest of him?
(Notice the stone cold silence by liberals on this one. Rove is bad, therefore he does not deserve protection. He supported the Iraq War, so the Code Pinko behavior is condoned.)
What should happen to Medea Benjamin and Cindy Sheehan the next time they get in a conservative’s face?
What do we do with people who show aborted fetuses to public officials?
What do we do with people who break into labs to steal embryos because they disagree with embryonic stem cell research?
What do we do with people who go into stores that sell fur coats and spray paint the fur?
What do we do with people who throw dead meat at people to protest eating animals?
What do we do with anti-war protesters who throw blood at soldiers?
What do we do with White House party crashers Mr. and Mrs. Salahi? While they were genial, they illegally invaded a private space, which cannot happen to any President.
(The fact that they did not try to harm him is irrelevant. “No harm, no foul” is not the answer. This was not a college prank. Violating presidential security is serious.)
Do we arrest these people and make sure they do jail time?
Yes, but we do something else first.
It is not a message that Jesus, Moses, or any other prophet would approve of, but Charlton Heston played Moses, and he might have approved.
We take the agitators, and we give them a pre-jail lesson.
We give them savage beatings.
It is time for Law and Order to be more than a liberally biased television show.
It is time to make an example of people, and force is the only thing that gets people to stop.
I was once five feet from Dick Cheney. I carefully looked at the Secret Service people because I wanted to take a picture of him. I was allowed to get within four feet, and I took the picture behind the rope line. Had I gotten within three feet of him, it would have been open season on me. I would have deserved it. Perhaps people would have intervened, claimed that I was a supporter, and the roughing up would have been minimal. Yet his safety has to come first.
What if I was jostled? The Secret Service is not stupid. They can see a falling guy knocked over and separate that from a charging, frothing madman.
People who endanger the safety of others need to be physically knocked around until they are subdued.
I am not saying use excessive force, although that is a subjective term. I am saying use severe force until the threat is stopped. The police used a taser on somebody who got unruly at a John Kerry rally. He yelled, “don’t tase me bro.” They did, and he deserved it.
Why have the Salahis not been rounded up, and sweated in an interrogation room by big guys with angry looks in a federal building?
Why are the protesters that tried to accost Karl Rove still walking free?
(Can liberals for once just pretend that it was a conservative protester attacking Barack Obama? Then the light bulb would go on and they would see a problem.)
I don’t care if every college campus becomes the second coming of Kent State. I want peace and quiet.
People have the right to protest in the public square. They do not have the right to invade private space.
Storming the Dean’s office and disrupting the work day should result in a baton to the back.
Liberals will claim that I am advocating a police state, that I want private citizens accosted. No, I want private citizens protected. We live in a world where everything is videotaped. Police brutality can and must be punished.
Some will point to the 1992 Rodney King incident. That is a great example. Most people were emotional on both sides. I looked at the situation coldly and logically. Rodney King was a criminal and a threat to public safety. The police had every right to subdue him. Two of the four cops went way too far, and used excessive force. They were rightfully convicted. The fourth cop was clearly trying to keep him down to avoid him getting further punishment, and tried to prevent excessive force. He was rightfully acquitted. The third cop was more complex because he was borderline. Unlike the fourth cop, he seemed much slower to stop the excessive force. He was acquitted, but either acquittal or conviction could have been justified.
The rioters should have been beaten and jailed. Burning Korean grocery stores had nothing to do with the verdict. Stealing VCRs had nothing to do with civil rights and oppression. Using crises such as the Riots and Katrina to commit crimes should result in extra beatings.
The mob in 1992 tried to burn down a convalescent home, but private citizens with guns forced the mob to retreat. Not only did this perfectly justify the exact reason the Second Amendment is about individual rights, but it showed that force works on anti-social behavior. The old aged home was saved. Filing briefs in court would not have prevented old dead people. Desperate times absolutely justify the measures taken.
We are in desperate times now.
There is no right to threaten the liberty of another private citizen.
The scum need to be cleaned off the street. They only make things worse for the legitimate protesters.
The police (and private citizens) are so scared of being called racists, bigots, warmongers, and fascists that they are too lenient with aggressors who prey on this fear.
It is time for the bullies to be forced to sit down so the good, civil citizens can assemble.
I am not willing to wait for a Code Pinko to come equipped with an adorable pink cherry bomb and murder a bunch of Republicans. The next time they storm a speaker, defend the speaker with a well placed baseball bat or taser to the attacker. I do not care if it is a 50 year old female. Suicide bombers come in all shapes and sizes. It only takes one nut.
We all have a right to assemble publicly.
None of us have the right to invade private space.
When the child touches the kitchen stove, they get burned. Then they stop touching the stove.
Law and order can be restored. A few physical beatings on the worst offenders would serve them right and serve society well.
Heck, sick the guard dogs on them. It does not have to be a total mauling. One bite is sufficient.
Release the hounds!
Then use the nightsticks, and pistol whip the protesters when necessary.
My right to peace and quiet will then no longer be infringed.
Liberty will not be weaker. It will be stronger. Those that violate my liberty surrender their own.
Once a few good beatings are administered, I guarantee that students will go back to class, and other agitators will learn a more constructive method of societal engagement.
Leftist protesters will use civil liberties as a fig leaf. Their real concern is that they then will have to find other ways to communicate, which they never learned.
Conservative protesters should not complain because as conservatives, they should know better anyway. Law and order supporters have to obey the law.
It is time for peace…and quiet.
eric
I thought as I was reading along, this was going to be about that horrible Westboro appellate decision. This is going to the SCOTUS now and I’m very curious to see how they rule. While I think batoning people and the sicking of dogs is just typical conservative authoritarian stupidity that will always counterproductively just lead to more escalation, the police and courts do have a place here. The jury found that the Snyders were emotionally injured by the Phelps protesters, that the Phelps crowd had extended their speech too far into the Snyders’ space, and that the speech was unprotected and damaging, so I don’t see on what the appeals court based this lousy decison. It was an odd split too, with one Clinton and one GW Bush appointee each agreeing to overturn the judgement and one GW Bush appointee concurring with the original judgement. What Westboro does seems to me to be unprotected speech. If they did that at a funeral for a loved one of mine, I’d be hard-pressed not to fly into a violent rage – but I wouldn’t want the cops doing that. I don’t want to live in a nation where the police can legally beat people because we’re too pussified to stand up for ourselves. I give the Snyders a lot of credit for their mature forebearance. I give Bill O’Reilly big kudos for paying Snyder’s fee that this twisted decsion foisted on him. As for our good host, if he wants people beaten, then he should go out and do it himself. Don’t have our police behaving like that. That’s the kind of Third World BS that conservatives want to foist on this nation. Let’s stop this race to bottom.
JMJ
“While I think batoning people and the sicking of dogs is just typical conservative authoritarian stupidity ”
Yeah, all cops are conservatives :-)
“I give Bill O’Reilly big kudos for paying Snyder’s fee ”
Glory halleluja, never thought I’d here you say a good thong about the man.
“Let’s stop this race to bottom.”
Then ask your buddies to stop acting like a bunch of rabid lemmings
“typical conservative authoritarian stupidity ”
As opposed to liberal authoritarian stupidity ?
Like this huge bill they just authorized even though the majority of the country said they didnt want it ?
( I showed you the polls, so dont play any games )
I watched the attack against Karl Rove at the theatre in Beverly Hills,
(he was promoting his book). He had no police security and was very
vulnerable had the attackers meant to harm or kill him.
His remark was, this is how the leftists act..or something to that effect.
At the University of Irvine, pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli activists
interrupted the speech being given by Michael Oren, Israel’s ambassador
to the United States. They did so several times.
In Detroit, a group of 9 were indicted for various criminal charges ranging
from conspiracy to gun possession and intent to harm a police officer.
They were a militant groug, which believes in the overthrow of our government, which they consider anti-Christian. Their plan was to
lure a law enforcement official, kill him, then bomb those that attended the funeral.
In Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, and Nigeria, militants threaten
and do resort of extreme violence to achieve their goals.
Their linkage, a hatred of the US, our Western way of life,
democracy, and of course Israel and world Jewry.
But really, they want (and say), to spread Islam (their view)
to the rest of the world, death by death.
In Nigeria (read LATimes), an extremist group is setting up
a Taliban style enclave in the North.
We now learn that Hamas leaders may be shipping arms (supplied
by Iran) to fight our boys and girls in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The CIA now is saying that Iran is close to, or has, enough
technology to make atomic bombs. Sanctions are in place, but
are doing no good (Obama is warning Iran again while engaging, talking
and attempting diplomacy).
Where are you leftist journalists on this one, I ask?
In Northern Jerusalem, Israel wants to build a few apartments to
house religious volk. In Har Homa, also a disputed area, quietly,
there is some construction..(but don’t tell anyone this secret or you might
upset Obama and his house Jews).
In the meantime, the Pales are building like crazy, all over the place,
in spite of construction violations and permits. But don’t tell this
to Obama guys.
In Iran, a family of a journalist activist who “told the truth”
is allowed to see him ( incarcerated for months, constantly being
tortured).
What do the above all have in common? You guessed it.
I am against caning of anyone as punishment. I don’t know
if “an eye for an eye” really applies here? The punishment should
fit the crime. Also our Constitution says something about
how we treat our citizens.
But then again, maybe a flogging now and then, in a public
square, with the criminal stripped bare..just might have an
effect, maybe?
Imus Guest This Morning, Jason Mattera author of “Obama Zombies, How The Liberal Machine Brainwashed My Generation. Who will inspire young Republicans. I enjoyed the interview video posted.
http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot.com/2010/04/imus-guest-jason-mattera-who-can.html
Liberals believe in living in as free a society as possible. The modern American definition of “Liberal” is basically just “Civil Libertarian,” Micky. We just don’t consider money to be speech. Money is a contract used for transactions. It is not speech. We also don’t consider corporations to be human beings. A corporation is just a legal entity, not a person endowed with human or constitutional rights. So, what you consider “authoritarian,” we liberals simply call “reasonable laws, rules and regulations on financial transactions and corporate activity.” If you consider that “authoritarian,” fine. Call it what you want. I think you’re being a foolish sycpohant, but I also think you have the civil right to be one. ;)
JMJ
Dan;
“We now learn that Hamas leaders may be shipping arms (supplied
by Iran) to fight our boys and girls in Iraq and Afghanistan. ”
Heh, Iran has already been busted long time ago sending weapons into Iraq along with members of their elite forces to aid in killing our guy.
Just another method of transfer since the last one got shut down.
I’m no angel, but yeah, common decency in this nation has taken a serious dive, especially in the last few months.
A storms a brewin, I pray the people realize our power is at the polls.
But if that were my kids funeral and those a$$hat Westboro morons maligned I dont now that I could contain myself. As a matter of fact I now I would probaly of ended up in jail that day.
By the way.
Happy Passover Eric
“A corporation is just a legal entity, not a person endowed with human or constitutional rights. ”
Someone owns that “entity”
Take for example the Doc James Cassel who placed the sign on his door.
And as the owner of that property you have rights protecting you to do with it as you wish.
As long as it adheres to there interpretation of freedom. Recently the majority of the country is complaining that this congress and admin. is straying from the constitution guranteeing those rights.
Like it or not, you guys are screwing with peoples freedoms
sorry, missed to place the quote
“Liberals believe in living in as free a society as possible. ”
As long as it adheres to there interpretation of freedom. Recently the majority of the country is complaining that this congress and admin. is straying from the constitution guranteeing those rights.
Like it or not, you guys are screwing with peoples freedoms
Oh yeah! Sorry about that! Thank you, Micky, for reminding me. Happy Passover, Eric!
Yes, I know someone owns that entity, Micky, but that doesn’t make that entity a human being. I own a frying pan. Is my frying pan a human being? Can I donate money to a political campaign from my frying pan? If I hit someone over the head with that frying pan, does the pan get in trouble or do I?
Now, I know that about half the country (not a majority) is complaing about our latest government, but that’s not because this government is doing anything particularly different from any other. It’s because people are morons. They’re miserable, they’re listening to $#@&bags like the Fox “News” crowd, and they’re blaming the current government for things that were set in motion over the past thirty years. Most Americans don’t know squat about the Constitution.
The Constitution is a quite intentionally very broadly interpretable, simple, short document. The Framers made it that way so that it could grow with the people over time. Throughout our history different interpretations of the rights granted and responsibilities enumerated in the Constitution have held sway. Today’s government is no more “screwing with peoples freedoms” than any other in the past. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about American history would KNOW that.
JMJ
Once again Jersey.
The constitution gives the person ownig the pan to do what he wants with it, as long as he doest slam someone over the head with it.
yeah yeah yeah, everyone who disagrees with whats going on is an idiot.
Get a new gig already… jeez
” Anyone who knows ANYTHING about American history would KNOW that.”
The fed cant force you to buy something. But these sneeky b*stards will probably call it a tax. I doubt my pay stub will say “healthcare payement X amount of dollars”
“Today’s government is no more “screwing with peoples freedoms” than any other in the past. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about American history would KNOW that.”
And you’re okay with that ?
Donycha think its getting a little outta hand ?
I don’t think the government is any more “outta hand” than it’s been in recent history. I can’t think of anything it’s doing that’s any drastic departure from the that past. The Bush administration was the worst offender when it comes to that. Obama would be well-advised to undue some of that damage.
The federal, state and local governments force us to buy things all the time, directly or indirectly. We can’t drive without insurance and registration. We have to keep our sidewalks cleared, which usually involves a purchase. We have to pay for the government and all it does. The problem with this plan is that it’s forcing us to purchase something from the private sector and there’s no way around it. Ironically, if the courts strike that provision down (and that’s a big “if”), the government may well be forced to offer a public option. Careful what you wish for!
JMJ
Oh jeez Jersey in the face of whats happening how the hell could you write such a stupid paragraph ?
weve hit unemployment numbers not seen since Carter, the people are raising hell like they were in the 60s, the majority of the country (57%) according to Gallup feel they could run the country better than either side.
“The federal, state and local governments force us to buy things all the time, directly or indirectly. We can’t drive without insurance and registration. ”
yeah, but thats mostly liability protection.
Ya cant make buy health insurance if I dont want it. Period
“Obama would be well-advised to undue some of that damage.”
Too bad hes failing.
His numbers are dropping in all sectors, all polls, he sucks
The other day, just prior to Easter Friday, I happen to
sit down at a local deli-service. One of the employees, seeing me,
came to my table, and asked permisson to sit down. Of course
being Easter Friday and Passover ( two of the most important holidays
in the Judeo-Christian calendars), I said yes.
This person then told me how difficult it was to work along with Hispanics,
they are a bunch of liars, etc.
What could I say?
Several weeks before, another emloyee at the same place
told me how it’s the fault of the Asians (Koreans) and Jews.
They sneak around businesses, learn from them, and
open up their own places.
On another occasion, another customer told me that
it’s all the fault of those big corporations..how dare they
hire part time workers..how dare they NOT provide adequate
health benefits, and other perks?
Soooo, it’s all the fault of the Asians, Hipanics, Jews and
large businesses. To these people, America is falling apart.
Then I watched as Karl Rove was attacked during his presentation
of his recently published book. Frnakly I felt like starting a movement
for activists to show up at these controversial meetings…armed with
(legal) tasers and pepper spray, prepared to (we) making a citizens
arrest, disorderly conduct, making threatening motions, etc.
I am not a week person. I have big shoulders and am strong.
I can take care of myself. I am gifted with a taser purchased
on the Net. It makes me equal to the biggest, baddest, meanest..
In fact, I am more than equal.
It’s one thing for someone to shout fire in a confined and permitted
(by the police) space. It’s another to attack Karl Rove and Michael
Oren in a theatre or California institution.
But there is obfuscation here folks. Shouting fire is okay when
there is actually a fire. It might save lives.
And that’s the crux of this..when is it permissable and when is it
unlawful.
The liberals have us all confused, from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan,
to Pakistan, to the M.E., and beyond. They tell us that reducing our stockpile of nukes to 1500 is okay.
Are you listening Ahmad, and Putin?
Hey guys, I read that Russia is financing a satellite base operation
in Venezuela. Mr. Chavez has purchased over 4b in arms from
Russia these past few years. Hmmmmmmm….I ask, for what reason?
Are you listening Obama?
I am against caning..it’s against our Constitution. But I am
for long prison sentences for agitators., no pre-mature releases here
folks.
I mean, what if Rove had been attacked, fell, and broke his back, or
slammed his head against something. What then?
What if an Arab agitator threw a brick at Michael Oren ( Israelis ambassador to the US)?
For those that don’t know, Oren wrote a very good, detailed book
about the Six Day War. In it, he reveals some salient facts, like 100,000
Egyptian troops on the border, the closing of the watersay, the shouts
of Jihad from the entire Arab world, and the mobilization of
500,000 Muslim soldiers for “The mother of all battles”.
But don’t tell Obama this history, he is demanding Israel stop
all construction everywhere in land taken during that war.
Hmmmmmmmmm, what if the Arabs had won, then what would
he be saying now? Would he compensate the survivers today?
In the other war, 25 people were gunned down by uniformed
people. I wonder…? Were they inspired by our soon to be departed
forces?
While back in California, Barbara Boxer is in a fight for her life.
I mean, she looks old guys. She is bringing in Obama to give her
life support ( 25,000 per couple dinner). She will need more than
the movie people’s gelt to win this election.
But she is hoping for black and Hispanic votes to pull her through.
If I were black or Hispanic, I would feel demeaned.
My concern would be the 10% unemployed in this state, and our
20b dollar deficit. (Where are you Barbara?).
But the movie people, bless their hearts, are raking in the shekels..
Avitar and all that fantasy.
I did like the movie, “Inglorious Bastards” however, even though
it has been strongly maligned by my people for being un “Jewish”.
Anyone read todays’ LA Times? In it there is an article about a righteous
gentile who was interned in the work camp at Auschwitz. He gave cigarettes to a Jewish inmate, saving his life ultimately (he used the
cigarettes to buy favors, like soles on his shoes on a death march, etc.
But what got me was his noticing someone hanging above the Work
Makes Free entrance to the smaller Auschwitz complex camp
system. Then there was the stench..and everyone ultimatly knew
why.
That is what happens when liberal fascists or othe fascists get
embolden and get away with their ultimate goals.
It starts with attacks on people like Karl Rove.