The left is on life support, and will be officially dead on January 20th, 2009. This is because a new President will have taken office.
It does not matter which party wins the White House. Win or lose, the left is done.
The Scott Beauchamp scandal is the final nail in the coffin, although without it, the left’s demise would still be taking place. For those of you wanting up to date information on this latest left wing debacle, http://michellemalkin.com/2007/08/06/report-beauchamp-recants/ provides it. However, this scandal is a symptom of a much larger disease, that being the disease of hatred.
The left has been reduced to rubble. They are simply a collection of angry, bitter, broken, hateful, spiteful individuals. I say this with zero glee. It is tragic.
Charles Krauthammer coined the term, “Bush Derangement Syndrome.” Now before the left offers a multitude of examples that they consider legitimate reasons for hating George W. Bush, I will reject them all out of hand. There is no reason to despise him, or any other mainstream American politician.
I hate Adolf Hitler. He murdered members of my family. Hatred of Stalin, Pol Pot, and other despots whose lives are dedicated to mass murder should be hated.
George W. Bush is only a cold blooded murderer if one turns the world of right and wrong upside down. So why does this occur?
The Clinton impeachment of 1998 and the close election of 2000 are the reasons for this. It has nothing to do with 9/11, the War in Iraq, abortion, or anything else. Republicans and conservatives were despised before George W. Bush ever began his campaign. George W. Bush himself was despised the moment he took office. The election was not stolen, or fraudulent. It was simply close.
The left simply does not want to defeat him legislatively. They want to humiliate him, grind him into dust, and haunt him for the rest of his life. That is what hatred does. It becomes an obsession. The problem with this is simple. George W. Bush leaves office on January 20th, 2009.
If the republicans win the White House, the left will have to take all this hatred towards the President and direct it towards somebody new. They need to start despising Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson now. Otherwise, these men might be seen as human beings, and not the evil cardboard cutouts that they need to be for the left to exist.
What if the democrats win the White House? Won’t the left calm down? Simply put, no. In fact, it could make things worse for them. Right now the left is simply losing electorally. Democrats can win, but liberals cannot. So if a democrat wins, they will be under pressure by the moderates that put them into power to stay moderate. Even if they sympathize with the left, they will be simply unable to accommodate them ideologically. Look at how many on the left are booing Hillary Clinton. If she wins, they will claim credit, and ratchet up the pressure.
This is not about elections. It is about humanity. I genuinely fear for George W. Bush’s life. I fear that some wacko on the left will abandon the democratic process. Conservatives routinely have their lawn signs stolen and their cars keyed. An act of unspeakable violence is certainly not out of the realm of possibility.
Of course many mainstream liberals would be horrified at such a scenario, but what are they doing to prevent it? If anyone thinks rhetoric does not lead to violence, ask somebody who bombed an animal testing lab or an oil factory. Better yet, look at Israel, a democracy. Yitzchak Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish citizen over a political issue.
Presidents have been killed before, and I pray that the rage that has engulfed the left does not lead to this. President Bush is called a murderer by many. He is compared to Hitler, and called evil. Therefore, it is totally reasonable to expect somebody to go over the edge and bring things to what they consider to be a logical and justified conclusion.
I even pray to God that the left somehow take deep breaths and realize that their existence does not have to depend on who is in the White House. I disagreed with Bill Clinton, but it did not stop me from becoming a respected and productive member of American and human society.
Hatred is a poison. It is patriotic to dissent, but it is poisonous to hate. look at the biggest suppliers of hate in the world, that being Syria and the Palestinians, through Hamas and Hezbollah. What have they achieved that is positive? Nothing.
If you dehumanize your opponent, and declare that opponent an enemy, is it no wonder that you will feel that your existence depends on your enemy ceasing to exist?
George W. Bush is a human being, and until the left finds a way to criticize his policies without hating his guts, they will remain lost…and emotionally empty.
Emotional emptiness is what is forcing the left to lie so that their vision of George W. Bush fits their characterization of him as evil. An evil man would allow 3000 Americans to die in New York to boost his poll ratings. An evil man would invade a sovereign nation and kill millions for sport.
Therefore, those who speak the worst about the President have to be telling the truth, no matter how much evidence refutes this. Bringing it back to Scott Beauchamp, he lied about atrocities being committed by US soldiers. A leftist magazine printed those lies. How could this happen?
Again, simple. Because the truth did not matter. The story itself was powerful, and bad for the President, and therefore had to be told. This is how CBS can state that memos bashing the President are “fake but accurate.” This is how the New York Times can shred its reputation and become the Jayson Blair Times. The ends justify the means. People on the left are noble and righteous, and people on the right are the enemy. It is ok to lie and cheat if you are doing it for noble reasons.
This is how liberals can tolerate one Senator who drove off a bridge and killed a woman, and another that was a leader in the Ku Klux Klan. The ends justify the means.
Conservatives in this country were near death in the 1960s. We climbed out of the abyss by expressing principles and policies. We formed think tanks. We wrote position papers. We questioned everything we did, and built ourselves up again from scratch. In short, our ideas and principles led us to electoral success.
The left wants to get elected, and then have an argument about which way to direct the country. That is backwards. You need to have the rigorous, soul-tearing debates first. The republicans got hammered in the 1964 election, but the debate strengthened us in the long run. We did not sit around and despise LBJ. We licked our wounds, and got down to work.
This is a moderately conservative country. By overwhelming margins we support the death penalty. We think our government taxes too much and spends too much. We believe that free trade works, and that isolationism is impractical and unhelpful. We believe in God, and the right of people to pray without being harassed.
In short, the things the left are offering are simply not what much of America wants at this time in history. Even if the democrats win the White House, it will be a rejection of a particular republican candidate, not an embrace of a liberal ideology.
Many on the left want to impeach the President, unable to comprehend that he leaves office voluntarily long before the process would be finished. Some want to end the war right now, because humiliating George W. Bush is simply more important than doing what is right by our soldiers. You cannot say you support the troops, and then cut off their funding. One day a democrat will be leading them. Then what? If the Iraq War is still going on, will it then be ok?
I have repeatedly stated that dissent is patriotic. I have also said that those who dissent should have an alternative. The republicans who sparred with Clinton offered the “Contract With America.” Not everybody liked the plan, but at least a plan existed.
January 20th, 2009 will be upon us soon enough. I plan to live my life during that time. My happiness and my existence does not get determined by who wins elections. For those of you who blame the President for your miserable lots in life, I say to you that electoral victories will not fill the voids in your black hearts.
It is not that liberals are liberals. It is that those who offer only rejectionism, hatred and rage are spreading poison. Then when they win an election, they will expect the right to just make nice. It does not work that way. I will not encourage payback, but I will not be able to stop it either.
I ask the left to please control its more volatile factions before something tragic happens. God forbid President Bush suffers a fate that no good man deserves, the entire left will be explaining why it does not have blood on its collective hands. Like Scott Beauchamp, these inciters will be lying.
May God bless and protect President Bush and his family from those who are perilously close to the edge. May they tone it down, see him as a human being, and find it in their hearts to understand that he disagrees with them, but cares about them, since they are part of the family of America.
eric
I state objective reasons for thinking that GW Bush was totally unqualified to be President and has been arguably the worst disaster that has ever befallen these United States of America. As a consequence I am called a “Bush Hater”
If GW Bush were to leave the Presendency on a golden parachute and live the rest of his days happily ever after in Crawford ,Texas, I would not be upset.
Murder and assasination are against the law and should be punished accordingly.
That said, no American President has deserved assassination more than GW Bush. I cannot think of one mass murderer in american prisons who has caused more harm than GW Bush
Don’t try to guilt trip someone who does’nt approve of your precious Dubya.
Tigger, you really need to tone down your infatuation with George Bush. I’m a Libertarian and can’t stand him. He’s part of what drove me from the Republican party.
BTW, if 70% of the country doesn’t approve of the man, doesn’t it seem to you that this disaffection exists among more than just ‘The Left’?
To posts #1 and #2,
You both just gave fine examples of what Eric is talking about. Now I’ll give you a couple of things to think about.
Why can’t you stand GW? Answer: The war in Iraq. Now, what else is there? Economy is good. Unemployment is down.
Are you both shouting the “Bush lied, people died” mantra? Doesn’t wash. Hillary and all the other democrats who voted for the war had access to exactly the same intelligence Bush did. While I admit the intelligence may have been faulty, Bush didn’t lie to anyone. Nor did he force or cajole any of the democrats into voting for the war.
Do I agree with his strategy in Iraq? No. I don’t think it was well thought out. Any plans on what to do once Hussein was deposed were either poor or nonexistent.
Regardless of how I feel about his overall performance, he is still the President, and I personally wish him no ill will. Doesn’t matter what his political affiliation is.
gasdocpol, you have done a wonderful job in your comment of reinforcing everything Eric just said. Thank you for that confirmation.
gregdn, you can’t stand him based on one or two issues or everything he’s done? With the exception of the execution of the war and immigration, there really aren’t any areas where he’s made too many mistakes. He’s not the best communicator in the world, but he’s still got a long way to go in my book to overtake Jimmy Carter as possibly the worst president this country has ever had. I’m old enough to remember that. Are you?
Eric,
A good article. You have hit the nail on the head. I enjoy your blog because your posts are always well thought out and easy for someone with an open mind to understand. Keep up the good work.
Anyone who has read this post and feels the way the last two commentators feel , I invite you to take into the consideration the meaning of ” inciting a riot”.
A good example of this kind of inciting will be found at the Daily Kos.
They are ratcheting up the rhetoric and playing on the emotions of the one part of our society that would be most likely to take a shot at our president, and sadly, I think they know it.
They are an example of free but irresponsable speech.
Gasdocpol said;
“That said, no American President has deserved assassination more than GW Bush. I cannot think of one mass murderer in american prisons who has caused more harm than GW Bush ”
This kind of statement is being made under the vail of the disclaimer;
” Murder and assasination are against the law and should be punished accordingly.”
But he still said it. And that Bush deserves to be treated outside the boundries of our countrys laws.
Kowboy slipped in there, my reference was to gregdn and Gasdocopol.
I clearly stated that if GW Bush lived happily ever after in Crawford texas, I would not be upset. . That is not someone who “hates” GW Bush.
GW Bush squandered opportunities people would kill to have for their kids.
he was a drifter with a drinking problem until he was forty
he was a serially failing businessman until the neocons propped him up as their front
these are not qualifications to be president
the national debt is skyrocketing
rich are getting richer
median income has been dropping
I did not say bush deserves to be treated outside boundaries
Bush’s lies have resulted in thousands of needless deaths
replaced professionalls with political hacks at FEMA
privatizing social security and harriet myersfor supreme court were idiotic
there are plenty of bush haters overseas bush is almost universally hated by foreigners but he will be
“gasdocpol said,
August 7, 2007 at 6:16 pm
I clearly stated that if GW Bush lived happily ever after in Crawford texas, I would not be upset. . That is not someone who “hates” GW Bush.”
No
“gasdocpol said,
August 7, 2007 at 1:37 pm
That said, no American President has deserved assassination more than GW Bush.”
But this is.
Nice try at deflection.
“Bush’s lies have resulted in thousands of needless deaths”
Did you even bother to read my comment? If not, try to find the part about the intelligence. If it’s Bush’s fault, it’s the fault of everyone who voted in favor of the war too.
I also note how you point out his past. I’m sure yours is pristine and you have never made a mistake. I probably did enough in my youth to make Bush look like an amateur.
Try finding some help for your BDS and then come back and talk to us like a rational human being.
I was very vocally against the Iraq invasion so was Gore and Obama
Few people have been responsible for as many needless deaths as GW Bush as a result of their mistakes
BUSH /CHENEY CHERRYPICKED THE INTELLEGENCE AND PRESSURED THE CIA TO GIVE ANSWERE THEY WANTED Invading Iraq was at the top of Bush’s agenda from day one (The agenda of PNAC) The neocons put Bush in office to invade Iraq.
Good luck explaining to your grandchildren why you supported bush
Gasdocpol…
I am arguing with my fingertips , but I cant help it.
I am a recovering alcoholic { oh shit, I sound like Glenn Beck} and I really get pissed when people throw in the drinking proflem card.
I have been places most people are only sympathetic to, and done things that have literally killed me.
Kicking alcohol and dope was the hardest thing I ever did in my life, and I still fight with it.
I live a good life now. But when people throw my past in my face they only show ignorance to the fact that people can change for better or worse.
My recovery has made me a better man and increased my faith in God enormously.
If any man on this earth can come from the grips of this disease and rise to be the President of the United States there is a lot more to say for him than you could possibly imagine, no matter what you think.
Do you really think that George W. Bush got to be president on his own merit?
But my hat is off to you for your own suceess.
Eric,
I would love to trade links with your site. I think we have a lot of things in common. I was looking at the comments above and can not believe that there are liberals out there who conveniently forget that almost all the Democrats that were in office before Bush was elected were making the same statements that he did after he was elected.
There are lots of records showing that EVERYONE believed Saddam had WMDs including Gore, Clinton (both of them), Kerry, Kennedy, and so on. But Bush cherry picked the intelligence? No, Bush had the intelligence to do something about it. Looks like Saddam had the last laugh… right before he was hanged!
And do they really think that Gore or Kerry could have gotten to be president on their own merit? Bush was beatable. Democrats just self-destructed and picked two losers in a row! What a break for Republicans!
Bush is no conservative on a lot of issues. He has been a supporter of huge spending bills, mostly written by Democrats. You would think he’d be Democrats’ biggest hero! If he had a D behind his name they’d praise his actions… well, maybe not the war and tax cuts, but everything else.
Finally this kills me (no pun intended) that these people are for peace while supporting the assasination of George W. Bush. What hypocrites! This proves that they are not for peace at all. I can think of people more appropriate for targeting!
Someone saying that he thinks that Saddam had WMDs is not the same as saying that Iraq was such a danger to the USA that we needed to thumb our nose at the rest of the world and invade Iraq immediately.
The biggest sin of Kerry and Clinton was to beliive, trust and support Bush.
Please excuse my shouting but you keep ignoring the fact that. GORE MADE NUMEROUS MAJOR SPEECHES OPPOSING THE IRAQ INVASION STARTING IN SEPTEMBER 2002.
Obama was also clearly and unambiguously opposed to the invasion in 2002.
I admit that GW Bush was a good campaigner and Gore and Kerry ran lousy campaigns. That proved that being a good campaigner does not mean someone will be a good President.
Scroll back and read that I said that assasination was illegal and should be punished.
You have put words in my mouth and that of Gore . Gore was clearly against the invasion and i did not say that Bush should be assasinated.
“GORE MADE NUMEROUS MAJOR SPEECHES OPPOSING THE IRAQ INVASION STARTING IN SEPTEMBER 2002.”
Pardon my french, but the Goreacle is a fucking idiot and a hypocrite. And I can say that with authority. I live in Tennessee and had to put up with that loudmouthed self serving moron. If him, Kerry, Obamamamma and Shrillary are the best you can some up with you need to go back to the bullpen and find someone else who can pitch for you.
“Scroll back and read that I said that assasination was illegal and should be punished.”
And then you said:
“That said, no American President has deserved assassination more than GW Bush.”
I take that as an endorsement. No bullshit qualifying statement negates it.
“GORE MADE NUMEROUS MAJOR SPEECHES OPPOSING THE IRAQ INVASION STARTING IN SEPTEMBER 2002.”
The Goreacle is an idiot. This from someone who lives in Tennessee and had to put up with him.
“Obama was also clearly and unambiguously opposed to the invasion in 2002.”
And yet he’s willing to invade an allied country. This qualifies him as an idiot also.
“Scroll back and read that I said that assasination was illegal and should be punished.”
Indeed you did. And then you said:
“Scroll back and read that I said that assasination was illegal and should be punished.”
Which is an endorsement of it in my eyes. The previous qualifying statement holds no water.
Rats. That second one shoulda said:
“That said, no American President has deserved assassination more than GW Bush.”
Gore did not make numerous speeches opposing the iraq invasion starting in 2002?
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run – Web Reconnaissance for 08/08/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.
Gasdocpol said;
“Do you really think that George W. Bush got to be president on his own merit?”
I say; Who has ?
Also, I can read between the lines and no matter how many times you say assasination is illegal, you still said Bush deserves it.
I would respect you more if you just admitted your sentiments instead of being dumb enough to think that we are all dumb enough to swallow your shit .
“Gore did not make numerous speeches opposing the iraq invasion starting in 2002?”
Mind showing me where I said he didn’t?
First off, I would like to commend Eric on putting this out there. With the current Bush-hating mentality it takes a lot of seeds to say what he did, so my kudos go out.
That aside, I am not a big Bush supporter but I certainly don’t want to see any harm befall him or his family. Additionally, Bush certainly didn’t drive me from the Republican party. If anything it should have simply stood as a reminder to us that we need to rethink the party and put more effort into returning to true conservative roots.
Furthermore, I admire Bush to no end. I may not agree with him but at least he shows conviction in what he does. Despite the criticism and negativity surrounding him, he does no waver which is a quality that more leaders need to take a lesson from. With the way politicians show zero spine or fortitude these days it’s a breath of fresh air to have a president more concerned with the task at hand than his poll ratings. You can disagree with the man all you want, but you have to acknowledge the fact that he is doing what he believes is necessary to ensure the security and well-being of this country against popular opinion that believes otherwise.
Either way, this is a learning experience. We have learned the true colors of both sides of the political spectrum, and hopefully in 2008 we will use these lessons and elect people into office that best reflect the well-being of this country. If the worst we get out of the Bush years is an unpopular war, I think we got off pretty damned easy. We’ve gotten out of administrations that have done far more damage than Bush and survived. Personally, I think that if you can look past the blind hatred people would actually see that there isn’t anything wrong with this country right now. It’s actually a pretty good place, with plentiful job, a healthy and strong economy and overall well-being. Sure we have our problems, but they were there before Bush and will be there after he leaves.
All he can do is what he believes is right. As long as he does that and sticks to it, I stand behind him as the president. It’s only when politicians allow popular opinion to sway their judgment that I write them off and no longer respect their position or office.
Hitler believed he was right so did Stalin. The worst we got was an unpopular war? Thousands of unecessary deaths, a trillion wasted the USA hated? National debt skyrocketing? Rich getting richer? Jobs going overseas? Cutbacks on education?
What planet are you on?
I don’t hate GW Bush. I hate the things that were done in his name.
He was a likeable lifelong screw-up that the Neocons used as their front.
“Hitler believed he was right so did Stalin. The worst we got was an unpopular war? Thousands of unecessary deaths, a trillion wasted the USA hated? National debt skyrocketing? Rich getting richer? Jobs going overseas? Cutbacks on education?”
Dude, might I suggest loosening your tinfoil hat just a tad? I think it’s causing undue pressure on your “brain”.
Thousands of unnecessary deaths. I suppose you count those on 9/11 too. You probably think the government had something to do with it.
“Skyrocketing national debt. Latest figures show the deficit going down. Please try to stay up on current events.
Jobs going overseas. I blame that more on labor unions than anything else. Unions had their time in this country, but that time has passed. Now they do more harm than good.
Cutbacks on education. Yeah. Let’s stop trying to send kids across counties to school in the name of “integration” so all kids can get the same education. Let’s spend money that could be spent on quality teachers and materials on large fleets of buses and the people to drive them and keep them running instead. Not to metion the fuel costs. There’s a cause for your buddy the Goreacle. Reduce the huge carbon footprint caused by busing by letting kids go to their neighborhood schools and spending the money saved on educating them properly.
“What planet are you on?”
Earth. You?
“I don’t hate GW Bush. I hate the things that were done in his name.”
Which is why you advocated his assassination in your first post, right?
Iraq not cause 9/11 but it was used to sell the Iraq war. WHY ARE WE IN IRAQ? If has made the threat of terrorism worse.
Bush said 9/11 in the same breath as Iraq so often that 70% of Americans thought Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
There is FAR more implicating Cheney and Rumsfeld , as members of PNAC and being in a position to tamper with our defenses for 8 months prior to 9/11 than there was linking Saddam to 9/11.
Our budget has gone from a surplus to a huge deficit that will have to be paid by our kids. Bush is not increasing the national debt as much as he was previously maybe.
Companies are downsizing and showing higher profits the rich are getting richer. The people who are getting let go and getting lower paying jobs.
Is busing an issue?
gasdocpol, I’m not even going to continue with you on the war. Every time you post all you end up doing is reinforcing my opinion that you’re probably a troofer. But I will address one thing.
“Is busing an issue?”
It’s going to be in the near future. With the recent SCOTUS decision on school districting based largely or solely on race, I’m waiting for the challenges to the districting of many school systems in the country.
You do know about the supreme court decision don’t you?
Which is bigger?
The link between Cheney and Rumsfeld to 9/11 ?.
or
The link between Saddam and 9/11 ?
“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al Gore, 2002
Gaspod: just how many terrorist attacks have occurred in the US since the war started. You did say that W should be assasinated, your qualifiers don’t hide your intent.
Obama may have been vehemently against the war in ’02 but who really cared what an Illinois state senator thought of the war? They didn’t ask the Alabama state senators what they thought.
There are no links to either between them and 9/11. That wasn’t a point of the war, certainly not one that 70% of the country supported (along with somewhat in excess of 35 countries or so).
You are a BDS sufferer who needs extreme help.
“Which is bigger?
The link between Cheney and Rumsfeld to 9/11 ?.
or
The link between Saddam and 9/11 ?”
See. You’re a troofer.
1. Nowhere did Gore say we needed to invade Iraq preemptively. In fact he clearly opposed the Iraq invasion in major speeches starting in Sept 2002.
2. I did not say that Bush should be assasinated. Isaid he deserved to be assasinated. I said assasination is illegal and should be punished.
3. Osama clearly saw that the invasion was a mistake and he held a rally agaist it. More people should have cared. Clearly Obama had insight and judgement that others lacked.
4. Both Cheney and Bush made studied efforts to inply or outright say that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq. 9/11 provided the mindset to go to war and that helped sell the war.
5. Cheney and Rumsfeld were key members of PNAC yes or no?
6. Cheney and Rumsfeld were in a position to tamper with our defenses for 8 months prior to 9/11. yes or no?
7. What link to you have between Saddam and 9/11 ?
8. You think that Alfred E. Newman is qualified to be President and need help
Gosh kowboy, I thought I was persistent.
This guy is hoplessly endowed with one of the most hopeless attitudes Ive ever heard.
You cant argue truth with half a mind.
If you do succeed in convincing him of anything he will probably blow his brains out.
“Clearly Obama had insight and judgement that others lacked.”
He has been gone for at least a week.
Saying something like this only shows how very out of touch this guy is.
This is undeniable evidence that any pursuit if logic is hopeless.
Lord Nazh, Micky2, Kowboy listen up
The following are facts:
1. 9/11 was used to sell the Iraq invasion
2. There is more linking Cheney and Rumsfeld to 9/11 than there is linking Saddam to 9/11.
3. Iraq was clearly no immenent danger to the USA
4. The Iraq war was unnecessary
5. The Iraq war is a disaster.
6. the Iraq war has created problems that are going to be difficult for anyone to resolve
7. Your problem is that YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH !
The following are facts:
1. 9/11 was used to sell the Iraq invasion
I thought it was the WMD’s? Make up your mind will ya?
2. There is more linking Cheney and Rumsfeld to 9/11 than there is linking Saddam to 9/11.
And still more linking Osama bin Laden to 9/11.
3. Iraq was clearly no immenent danger to the USA
Iraq was a potential danger to the entire world. Saddam, left to his own devices, would have plunged the entire Middle East into war eventually.
4. The Iraq war was unnecessary
No, just earlier than it should have been. There would have been a war there eventually.
5. The Iraq war is a disaster.
Actually, the Iraqi government is the disaster. Oh yeah, and the damned dimwitcrats who won’t support our troops.
6. the Iraq war has created problems that are going to be difficult for anyone to resolve
You got me there. I have to agree with you.
7. Your problem is that YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH !
I handle the truth fine. It’s just that I handle the actual truth and not your version of it.
I can also tell some things about you from your posts:
1. You have never been in the military. It’s ok though. You probably couldn’t handle it anyway.
2. You’re a liberal. Not just any liberal mind you, but a dyed in the wool, foaming at the mouth KosKids liberal.
3. You were unmercifully picked on in high school. Probably one of the major reasons for #2.
I could go on, but there’s really no use. I think you get the idea.
1. It was the White House that needed to make up its mind as to why we thumbed our nose at the rest of the world and invaded Iraq.. First it said it was WMD but as the lies about unanium from Niger, the aluminum tubes for concentrating uranium, the WMD ready to go in 45 minutes etc were exposed, the pretext for the invasion shifted to the need to bring democracy to Iraq and that Saddam was such a bad guy.
Cheney outright insisted that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Bush mostly keep mentioning 9/11 and Iraq in the same breath deliberately giving Americans the impression that Iraq had something to do with 9/11. Americans were infuriated over 9/11 and Bush/Cheney et al directed that anger to Iraq. It was a classic case of “Bait and Switch”
2. You tell me what links Saddam to 9/11 and I will tell you what linked Rumsfeld and Cheney to 9/11.
3. Just because you accepted the lies of Bush/Cheney that Saddam was such a danger does not make it true. When Saddam tried to invade and occupy Kuwait, the world, including Arabs , rose up as one to defeat him in short order, deciimating his army in the process. He had no allies; everyone was against him. Do you think he was going to try that again, much less threaten the USA which spent more on military than the next 12 contries COMBINED? Get real!
4. (see #3) Why would there be a war? Only if we started it.
5. Bush sending the troops on a fool’s mission is not my idea of supporting the troops. It was Bush’s idea to invade Iraq . He did not take into consideration the consequences of removing the relative stability that Saddam imposed. or the problems of getting iraq on its feet.
1. I was a commissioned line officer in the Naval Reserve. I have experience as an officer onboard ships at sea. I have an MBA and I have been department head in hospitals and CEO of a corporation. I have made life and death decisions for decades as a physician.
2. I am neither a Liberal nor a Conservative. Over the years , I have voted for slightly more Republicans than Democrats.
3. I got a varsity letter in wrestling (156 lb class) as a junior in high school. No one ever picked on me in high school.
Not only do you unconditionally accept the lies of our White House, but you make statements about things of which you have no actual knowledge. Hmmm do you realize what you have been saying?
Gasdocpol,
If you think at this point or any other point that us or anyone should be listening to Obama you are clearly void of rational thought ,lost.
Do you remember Mitt Romneys comment over Obamas recent statements pertaining to Iraq, Pakistan, and foreign policy ?
“He wants to have tea wih our enemies, and bomb our allies”
You said;
“Clearly Obama had insight and judgement that others lacked.
AND ITS REALLY SHOWING NOW, ISNT IT ?
You are a F$#$^%*& joke! you honestly really are a F$%$^%*& joke.
I think you are just spewing anything controversial for the sake of arguement !
The proof of this fact is that KOWBOY has at least made one concession to you
You said;
“6. the Iraq war has created problems that are going to be difficult for anyone to resolve”
Kowboy said;
“You got me there. I have to agree with you.”
But you refuse to admitt anytime or anywhere that you ” MIGHT ” be wrong on an occassion.
Since you claim to of been in the service { reserves} you must know what constitutes an act of war.
Decieving weapons inspectors and then kicking them out of the country was an act of war based on agreements made after the 1st Gulf war.
Shooting at our planes in no fly zones was also an act of war and breaking the agreement.
Paying suicide bombers families to send their young to Afghanistan to blow up our troops is an act of war.
Saddam was not complying my man , good god ,where were you?
So let me get this right….
are you saying that Bush and Cheny have never done anything right ?
Sounds like it.
You said;
2. I did not say that Bush should be assasinated. Isaid he deserved to be assasinated. I said assasination is illegal and should be punished.
So bush deserves illegal measures ?
Let me get this right… He should be assasinated only if we catch the guy who did it ?
Its illegal, but he deserves it.
I myself believe that everyone should get what they deserve, dont you ?.
Sorry dude, you cant get away from this one , and this is the one that started all this shit.
Go see a shrink, seriously.
I wiil try to be the man here that I believe we all should be and apolgize to Gasdocpol for my bad choice of words.
Let’s not confuse the issues.
You came to 3 conclusions from my posts (I was never in the military, etc)
I addressed myself to each of them.
Would you please address the 5 responses that I gave to your previous pot?
Starting with # 1 (“Make up your mind , will you?)
Please do not put words in my mouth. You can keep on talking down to me , if you like , but it really neither impresses nor intimidates me.
We can get to your more recent concerns later. I tried to understand what you wanted to say and I tried to answer in a civil way and as if you were listening to me as carefully as I am listening to you.
I have made plenty of mistakes in my nearly 7 decades of life, fortunately none of them have been disastrous (knock on wood)
I have no axe to grind against the GOP except for their sponsorship of GW Bush. When they start making more sense,,I will support the GOPagain.
I have my education, training and life experience to draw upon for my conclusions.
It is conceiveable that i could be wrong. I like to think that I am capable of admitting when I am wrong.
In my field , it is said that one mistake will rarely kill a patient ; but what will kill a patient, is denial and covering your tracks and not evaluating to criticize rather than to admire.
gasdocpol said;
“I have my education, training and life experience to draw upon for my conclusions.
It is conceiveable that i could be wrong. I like to think that I am capable of admitting when I am wrong.
Will you address any reconsideration of your statements on assasinating Bush ?
If I have given the impression to anyone that I am, in any way, approving or advocating the assasination of GW Bush I deny, regret and apologize for that.
I am against the assasination of GW Bush however much I feel that he might deserve such a fate.
An argument could be made that since JFK was plotting to kill Castro that he was assasinated could be considered poetic justice. That is not to say that I was in any way happy that he was killed.
I am of the opinion that OJ Simson deserves to die for crimes that I feel that he committed. That is not to say that I think that he should be assasinated. I do not think that too many people would cry if indeed some nut killed him. I suspect that many people would think that he deserved to be assasinated. Does that mean that those people were advocating assasination as a practice?
NOW if you want to discuss the issues , will you please address yourself to the 5 points above cited?
It seems to me that each time I make a point that you cannot answer, you change the subject.
I came into this with only one issue {assasination} and you have not satistied me yet in explaining yourself.
I really dont see any point in debating any other issue that you would care to debate, because it is evident that you are driven by hate.
Frankly, I’m really bored with this rhetoric that comes from the far left.
I,ve had this debate quite few times with only a handfull of leftys, which means that there isnt too many that think like you, hence, your not too important.
But this issue below gets my interest
” I am against the assasination of GW Bush however much I feel that he might deserve such a fate. ”
You still think and feel he deserves it. You cant escape by using the word ” MIGHT”.
If you are willing say that poetic justice could be an arguement for JFKs assasination
you clearly talking to the wrong guy. And by saying that makes it only evident that you do think assasination is justified by any means.
I will say this , which is very close to what the author says in his post.
” I wouln’dt be surprised if the kind of sentiment you spread is somehow responsable for someone taking a shot at Bush”
Hows that?
I will conclude from your comments that you have made up your mind and do not wanted to become confused with facts.
If assasination was the only issue that concerned you, you should have limited yourself to that. Your other contentions did not hold up but you do not want to admit it.
Have a good life.
1. It was the White House that needed to make up its mind as to why we thumbed our nose at the rest of the world and invaded Iraq.. First it said it was WMD but as the lies about unanium from Niger, the aluminum tubes for concentrating uranium, the WMD ready to go in 45 minutes etc were exposed, the pretext for the invasion shifted to the need to bring democracy to Iraq and that Saddam was such a bad guy.
Cheney outright insisted that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Bush mostly keep mentioning 9/11 and Iraq in the same breath deliberately giving Americans the impression that Iraq had something to do with 9/11. Americans were infuriated over 9/11 and Bush/Cheney et al directed that anger to Iraq. It was a classic case of “Bait and Switch”
I won’t deny that I question the motivations for the war. That said, we’re there, and to cut and run would be a monumental mistake. Bush needs to pressure the Iraqi government to stop the partisan infighting (like our own congress needs to do). I don’t believe Saddam was directly connected to 9/11. I do not, however, rule out the possibility that he may have indirectly supported it in some way. There’s not proof either way and I’m not going to argue about it.
2. You tell me what links Saddam to 9/11 and I will tell you what linked Rumsfeld and Cheney to 9/11.
Do you purposely avoid bin Laden?
3. Just because you accepted the lies of Bush/Cheney that Saddam was such a danger does not make it true. When Saddam tried to invade and occupy Kuwait, the world, including Arabs , rose up as one to defeat him in short order, deciimating his army in the process. He had no allies; everyone was against him. Do you think he was going to try that again, much less threaten the USA which spent more on military than the next 12 contries COMBINED? Get real!
Yes I do think he was going to eventually try it again. He believed it was his destiny to rule the Middle East. He was mentally unstable. You think of him as a rational person when he was anything but. He would have tried again simply because his ego would have driven him to do it.
4. (see #3) Why would there be a war? Only if we started it.
See answer to #3
5. Bush sending the troops on a fool’s mission is not my idea of supporting the troops. It was Bush’s idea to invade Iraq . He did not take into consideration the consequences of removing the relative stability that Saddam imposed. or the problems of getting iraq on its feet.
You’re right. The plan for going in and taking out Saddam was great. The plan for how to deal with Iraq afterwards absolutely sucked. Sometimes I wonder if they even had a plan. It’s almost like they thought once they took out Saddam they could just say “Ok folks, it’s all yours, have fun” and go home.
1. I was a commissioned line officer in the Naval Reserve. I have experience as an officer onboard ships at sea. I have an MBA and I have been department head in hospitals and CEO of a corporation. I have made life and death decisions for decades as a physician.
I was a Navy avionics technician. My son is currently serving in the Navy. I have some college and work in industrial maintenance. I am proud to have served and am just as proud of my son. My apologies for the remark.
Nothing personal, but my father worked in maintenance at a local university for years. I saw many people who were absolutely brilliant at what they studied, but who didn’t have enough common sense to come in out of the rain. Not saying that’s the case with you. Just saying that having a college degree has never impressed me much unless you have the basic skills needed to get along in society to go along with it.
2. I am neither a Liberal nor a Conservative. Over the years , I have voted for slightly more Republicans than Democrats.
I have voted much more for republicans. I have on occasion voted for democrats, but only moderate or conservative democrats, who are getting harder and harder to find nowadays.
3. I got a varsity letter in wrestling (156 lb class) as a junior in high school. No one ever picked on me in high school.
I didn’t get picked on either. I lettered in the 145 pound class.
Not only do you unconditionally accept the lies of our White House, but you make statements about things of which you have no actual knowledge. Hmmm do you realize what you have been saying?
Yes I do. I admit I’ve been trying in some cases to see how far I could go. This is especially true with the conclusions I made about you in my last post. And since you addressed those, I now know a bit more about you and understand a bit more where you’re coming from. We’re probably not that far apart philosophically, but I do think I’m more conservative in my beliefs than you are. Not that I’m more right or wrong, we just disagree on some issues. But we do agree on some, and that’s common ground. And for reasonable people that’s all you need to come to an understanding.
gasdocpol said;
“I will conclude from your comments that you have made up your mind and do not wanted to become confused with facts. ”
“Being confused with facts” is an oxymoron.
Your facts work only with a very small minority.
My facts work with a majority of sane people. We even set up our legal system that way.
You also said;
‘If assasination was the only issue that concerned you, you should have limited yourself to that. Your other contentions did not hold up but you do not want to admit it.”
You just cant read , can you ?
One more time… and restudy the english languge this time, please.
I CAME TO THIS DEBATE WITH ONLY ONE ISSUE, that was assasination, got it ?
But “YOU” brought up the other issues, and here’s how you did when bringing them up.
You are wrong on Obama, and right now almost everyone is questioning his judgement, even far left nutjobs.
I straightened you out on the presidents drinking problem which you felt made some kind of point. {Did you get where you are at on your own merits ? Or has any man for that matter ?}
And you have not answerd to the three + acts of war Saddam exercised against our country.
And you most certainly have not retracted your statement or feelings on the assasination issue.
That is my biggest and problem and has been , all you need to do is scroll up to the top and take a look.
But as it seems from your last post you bailed because you are too weak to answer the one most important question I have.
If you have no plausable answer from this point I can only “CONCLUDE” my characterization of you
lol
You can answer me whenever your done laughing
Eric, you are on the right track, but you have to go back in time a little bit further. Being from Texas, I can claim to have voted for Bush four times. The first was in 1994 when the then Managing General Partner of the Texas Rangers ran for Texas Governor against then-Democratic Party darling Ann Richards. Perhaps you remember Gov. Richards, she of the hilariously famous Democratic National Convention quip, “Poor George, he can’t help himself–he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth!”
Have I got a good come-back for when I address the Republican National Convention next year!
See, Richards was the big thing back then, being elected in 1990–before Hillary Clinton’s husband drug her into the national spotlight. And being an already elected Governor of the 2nd most populous state in the union, she was a truly honest-to-goodness candidate to join Vice President Gore on the ticket in 2000.
And had she been re-elected, I have no doubt in my mind that the following would have occurred: GW would have gone on managing his business interests, Gore would have been elected, Richards would have been his VEEP, and John Kerry would simply be remembered as the junior Senator from the People’s Republic of Massachussets.
Throws a little cog in the works, you know? Unfortunately, Texans can tell when someone is good for the economy and a Party matches the general moral and/or economic environment of our state. I keep waiting for others in your fair state, that of my birth, to recognize the same.
And how are your Senators, by the way???
I thought that it was ridiculous, and inaccurate for Ann Richards to utter those words on the subject of Bush the Elder. She wasyour basic asshole. Actually she said that he was born with a silver foot in his mouth.
GHW Bush was a credible warrior if not a war hero, an athlete-scholar at Yale, a successful businessman, held a very impressive succession of posts prior to being President. He was a good President.
Are you sure GHW does’nt deserve assasination also ?
i voted for bush the Elder and thought he was a good president. I was for him over Reagan for the nomination in 1980.
Gasdocpol,
You have some nerve to come back and post as if your stance on assasination of our president is O.K.
You need to flat out take it back.
Its those kind of hateful remarks brought up in this post that should not be tolerated.
But then, now that I think about it, even if you did apologize, I doubt you would actually mean it.
Thats kind of sad.
Wow, you just can’t take the kool-aid drunken Leftys anywhere….even the Kos has finally realized that the Left wing of the Demo party has gone off the rails and Gasdocpol serves to illustrate just how far off these folks are.
I think they are starting to realize that the majority of American voters donot believe the DISTORTIONS & MISTRUTHs about Iraq, GlobullWarming, Socialized Medicine, Tax the Rich, ethical Congress is going to help in 08. The mouthpiece MSM is also becoming irrelevant, the polls show that most Americans distrust the Dim/Media almost as much as the Dhim Congress!
As the Hill gets closer to the Dhim nomination, the Kos left will become just another alienated minority that will sell out their own mothers. With Hill’s negatives and her effect on the Right voter, IMO the Left has just about become exactly who will not be running this country……