A bunch of children argued about nonsense in a childish manner.
Yes, the Demagoguic Party had a debate, and the only adults speaking were the moderators, and on occasion, Joe Biden.
The moderators, while civil, were gutless, refusing to bring up the issue of Hillary planting questioners.
https://tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/08/democrats-running-for-president-primary-winner-declared-least-irrelevant/
https://tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/09/another-adult-republican-discussion/
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/15/what-happens-in-vegas/
John Edwards was less childish than his opponents. Hillary survived, and Obama crashed and burned in the same way Hillary did in the previous debate. This was the night where Obama showed what a lightweight he is.
It is time for some hard truths that are going to tick people off. Part of equality is having the courage to tell somebody that they are not up to snuff, even if they are a minority. Now I know guilty white liberals are scared to death of criticizing anybody black because, after all, that would mean a visit from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, complete with contrition.
Barack Obama is an empty suit. Period. If he was 100% caucasian he would be John Edwards, and as much as it pains me to say, John Edwards looks like a man fo substance next to Obama.
No, it is not racism to criticize someone who happens to be partially black. True equality means basing people on merit if they have been given an equal shot. Barack Obama had an equal shot in this debate, and he had zero substance.
The candidates, when not saying zilch, found time to naive. Here is the recap of the Sesame Street Debate.
Whena sked about the politics of parsing, Hillary announced that she was tested and ready to lead. She did not say how or why, or what that has to do with parsing words. Obama said that Hillary, in essence, is a doubletalker, and in one of the only times all night, gave specific examples of issues. Hillary said that Obama did not step on universal health care, and stated that “Republicans are the enemy we are against.”
I thought the enemy was Al Queda and other terrorist nations. Republicans are not Hillary’s opponents. They are her enemy.
Yet Hillary had Obama in a daze, and he fumbled around. She decked him, and he staggered.
When Edwards said the issue was trust, and brought up issues Hillary has straddled, from Iran and Iraq to social security, Hillary pulled the girl girl routine and claimed she was being personally attacked.
Hillary is simply brilliant. The very things she was accused of, she did, and she got away with it. The nomination is hers, the rest is a formality. The debate should have been canceled after that.
Biden said it was about action not words, and he has acted over his career.
The next question dealt with John Edwards’s flip flops, pretty much inoculating Hillary from now on. He said Hillary flip flopped on Trade deals, why he “learned” and “grew.” Dodd said the debate was shrill, and Richardson said he wanted a positive race.
On the issue of illegal immigrants getting driver’s licenses, Obama self-destructed. Anybody liberal whoever bashed Dan Quayle should superimpose Obama on a deer caught in headlights. Hillary has bashed in the press for her being unable to answer the question, and with two weeks to prepare, she had a one word answer…”no.” It did not matter that it took weeks to come to that calculation after Eliot Spitzer gave up. Hillary looked decisive on stage. Obama blamed President Bush, talked about letting in “light, not heat,” and mentioned In n Out Burger for some reason.
Edwards said no, but that we need comprehensive immigration reform, a fair enough point.Chris Dodd said no, Clinton said no, and attention was nowhere near her as Obama then finally ended up saying yes. Dennis Kucinich said no, and Bill Richardson said yes. I disagree with Richardson, but he was unequivocal in taking an unpopular stand, and I give him credit for having some guts. Kucinich insisted there were no illegal immigrants at all.
The next issue was merit pay for teachers, and standing up to teachers’ unions. Dodd incredulously responded that going into bad neighborhoods and teaching counted as merit, while actual results was not considered merit. Huh? I guess it depends on what merit means. He also wanted an entire debate only on education. Kucinich had zero disagreements with unions, and Richardson wants a $40,000 minimum salary for teachers and pre-school for all children. How to pay for this was left out. His other idea was sound, trading one year of national service for two years free college, provided he can pay for it. Biden ducked by saying it was impossible to decide who makes the decision. Mr Biden has not been in the private sector in awhile, or he would know what a supervisor is.
Hillary said school is a team, and that we should reward collaboration, and allowing schools to get merit pay. When asked about some teachers being better than others, Hillary said we should weed out bad teachers, as if that could ever happen. Folks, this is socialism, pure and simple. She does not believe in individual merit.
On Pakistan, Biden said we should take away aid to Pakistan if Musharraf does not step down. Biden is usually a grownup, but missed out on this one. Yet Richardson went crazy (in a calm manner) by saying that human rights was more important than national security. Edwards wants to rid the world of nuclear weapons. Dodd babbled before finally stating that national security was more important. Obama rambled and never answered the question, which means he would be good on the war on drugs as since he might see having any substance as illegal. Hillary said national security was more important, and meandered about knowing how to navigate, navigating pretty well herself.
When asked if the surge was working, Richardson said one American death was too many. Richardson and Kucinich both said no, with Kucinich saying we violated international law and that U.S. aggression created the current turmoil in Pakistan. Obama again could not answer the question, saying the overall strategy failed.
A bizarre question was asked about whether those who had voted for free trade had blood on their hands for the death of children due to defective Chinese toys. None of the candidates had the courage to express bewilderment at such a bizarre stretch.
Kucinich said yes, Edwards said free trade was a complete disaster while Waffling on China and WTO. Whena sked if Ross Perot was right, Hillary dodged and weaved, but very effectively, She brought up actual issues such as pet food and medical components. However, she then said she wanted independent investigations on everything coming in here. She refused to say NAFTA was wrong, only that it “did not deliver.” I am still interpreting that Clintonspeak.
Dodd said that Hillary waffled on Peru trade deal due to polling. Obama said he was ok with a Peru deal, just not CAFTA or a South Korea deal. I am sure he has his reasons. Biden blamed President Bush.
Given that the debate was in Nevada, a major issue is where to store nuclear waste, with the Yucca Mountains being a proposed site. The people of Nevada are obviously opposed to this. A simple question was asked…if not Nevada…where?
Obama said we need to develop a storage site, a complete lack of an answer. He then said the issue requires bold leadership, which according to him means declaring hopeful platitudes in a pleasant voice. Richardson said we should turn Yucca into a national laboratory, which means something to someone.
Asked if she was exploiting her gender, which she did well in the first round of this debate, Hillary said she was playing the “winner card,” and that she was being attacked because she was winning. When asked about her comments in Wellesley about a “Boys Club,” Hillary refused to elaborate. Edwards was booed when pointing out that Hillary takes money from lobbyists.
The questions from the audience were designed to stoke emotions and ignore facts. A question from a mother and her soldier son who were both against the war were not balanced with those of anyone in favor of the war. These people do exist.
The question asked how war with Iran could be prevented. Biden suggested we impeach President Bush if he starts a war with Iran. Hillary said the President had no legal authority to go to war, even though she gave it to him. It reminded me of Al Gore talking about “no controlling legal authority.” SHe also spoke about “aggressive diplomacy,” whatever that means. She stunned me when she said that Iran would not be required to give up its pursuit of nuclear weapons. Edwards blamed Neocons, and stated that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard was not a terrorist organization. Obama said absolutely nothing, although he did to his credit say his missing the crucial vote was a mistake.
When asked why soldiers make $30k while corporate contractors make $100k, Richardson said he would pull everybody out, including the contractors.
Asked about racial profiling, Edwards said no to that as well as torture and Gitmo. Kucinich said he voted against the Patriot Act because he actually read it, eliciting laughs. Biden offered some integrity by saying that nothing in the Pariot Act allows for profiling. He said that while he voted to close Gitmo three years ago, the issue is what to do now, which nobody else was addressing.
When asked whether or not terrorism and illegal immigration were in any way related, nobody had the guts to answer either way. Dodd spoke Spanish, wants some of the border fence, but not all of it. Richardson blamed the Federal government, and offered a four part plan that was not related to the question directly.
When asked about how to keep social security and medicare solvent, Obama offered nothing except controlling costs by having universal health care, a bzarre idea of solving a government boondoggle with an even bigger boondoggle. Hillary wants a bipartisan commission like 1983, but the difference is that in 1983 Reagan and Tip O’Neill actually could work together. They trusted each other. Hillary does not have the trust of republicans, and why should they trust her, since they are the enemy?
WHen asked about a pro-choice litmus test for Supreme Court Justices, they all said yes. Hillary stated that President Bush does not understand how government works. Of course, she does.Richardson believes diversity is the primary concern of the court. I thought it was who had fine legal minds. Biden promised the next justice would be a woman. Dodd initially said no to litmus tests, but that the judges could not overturn Roe vs Wade. It depends what the meaning of litmus tests are.
Biden sometimes offered adult solutions, and Edwards was booed for being right. They finished first and second respectively. Hillary survived, which was good enough. She stopped the bleeding. Obama was a mess. Discussing the others would infer there is a reason to do so.
The republicans won this debate by default. The democrats remain the party of McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis and Kerry.
I pray Al Queda was too busy trying to murder us to watch this debate, because if this does not embolden them, nothing will.
Hillary is a woman, Obama is black, Richardson is Mexican, and Edwards has a nice smile.
Diversity is great in a children’s playground, which this was. They are against merit, because none of them have any. If they do, they keep it hidden.
Enough Sesame Street. The republican adults will debate soon enough.
eric
“The republican adults will debate soon enough.”
LOL!
It was a typical debate last night. Low on substance, high on fluff. The GOP debates have been exactly the same. Dumb questions, cheap oneupsmanship, soundbyte answers, pandering positions. The last question – the one about Hillary’s jewelry preferences – seemed planted. Nothing new to see here folks.
When asked about licenses, the debators should have just thrown it to the states. Until Real ID becomes a reality, the matter is federally moot. The question was obviously aimed at Hillary’s supposed flop on the question in the last “debate.” Most of the other questions seemed nuetral. The RvW question was important, but phrased poorly. The debators got the right answer – that the right to privacy is intristic in the constitution. That is the basis of the RvW and subsequent related decisions. Overall, aside from the whole Queen of the Hill game, it was a typical ’08 debate.
As for the maturity of the GOP and Dem debates, they have been the same. The only difference I can see is that the GOP debates feature more adolescent testosterone.
JMJ
I totally agree with everything said here. Joe Biden has some of the best answers because he gave solutions. The only woman up there said something about having 35 years experience…wha, what? Joe Biden said the same number of years experience, yet has a track record to go along WITH those years.
Things were extremely pathetic…planted questions, focusing too much on “supposed” front runners (ask Howard Dean about “front runners”). Just out-and-out crap!
I’ve had better debates with Jersey.
I’m with Micky.
JMJ
JMJ wrote;
“As for the maturity of the GOP and Dem debates, they have been the same. The only difference I can see is that the GOP debates feature more adolescent testosterone. ”
Which means at least they have some cajones.
Obama was stammering so bad it looked like Hillary was getting ready to slap him out of it.
Richardson was incredibly full of it.
The surge is working no doubt, but its not up to our soldiers to show the Iraqi parliament how to get there crap together. The point behind the surge was to lower the chaos to a point where the government had some room to breath.
Well the surged worked and did what it was intended to do its evident in all reports in all media. But instead Richardson panderd to the emotion card. Cheap politics, cheap. They all answerd that question with the delusion that there should be no casualties in a war. Its sounds really grand to say ” if even one soldier dies its too much” But deep down its stupid and no doubt pandering to anti war sentiment, crystal clear.
Hillary said that she doesnt mind questions about her record ,LOL no wonder , she doesnt answer them anyway. And then turns right around and says that the American people know where she stands. Carpetbaggers union
Yea , she wanted to weed out the bad teachers, but never answerd the question if she wanted to give better teachers merit. Socialism would not allow merit pay.
And then confirms a level of stupidity by saying that our public schools have served us very well. Whos us ?
The question was meant to say does the teacher deserve more money and Biden said the merit pay comes in the form of knowledge ? WTF ?
Cant these guys just say that a good teacher is worth a few more bucks ?
I cant go on, I’m getting nauseated.
JMJ wrote;
“As for the maturity of the GOP and Dem debates, they have been the same. The only difference I can see is that the GOP debates feature more adolescent testosterone. ”
Which means at least they have some cajones.
Point made.
JMJ
“Hillary is a woman, Obama is black, Richardson is Mexican, and Edwards has a nice smile.
Diversity is great in a children’s playground, which this was. They are against merit, because none of them have any. If they do, they keep it hidden.”
Good one Eric!
A pretty sorry showing from the lot of them.
I’m still waiting for the bomb to go off (the PRC contributions to the Clintons and Gore in exchange for supercomputer technology, ballistic missle and satellite technology, etc.) Somebody MUST remember the ’90s, when suddenly classified material was licensed to be sold to China. (Reagan and Bush ’41 wouldn’t allow it to be exported to them.) I don’t know why someone (preferably a Republican) doesn’t take the Hildebeest to task about it. How DO all those Chinese dishwashers have a couple hundred $ to give for an election campaign? Are they even eligible to vote? What do they expect to get now?
You were upset that no one knocked Hillary over planting questions, and then you missed knocking her for planting half the audience. You do need to check out the dirt Daily Kos digs up now and again. Now the only thing left is to get someone to confess what she promised to the Nevada Party leadership for the boo-machine they fashioned for her.
And really. It’s diamonds. Sheesh.
I love news about politics… Thanks…
I like Biden on the Dem side and Hunter on the Rep side….these so called debates, are like dog shows, they really don’t count till you get the field narrowed down…who was best in show, Senator Joseph Biden (Delaware)
In Obama’s defense:
Hey, even Peyton Manning can throw 6 interceptions in a game.
Either way, good read, glad you type with elephant fingers so I could naively forget all the really crazy points you made.
….Kidding aside, great points raised, I missed a buncha the debate, but unfortunately, seems like you filled in the fluff that I missed very accurately.
I always wondered if these debates were less regulated, where outsiders could come and debate, where the list of questions would be released earlier and we could criticize it then instead of after the fact – if they would get better?
Honestly, it’s like watching every channel’s award-show. There are so many award shows that just invite the same celebrities and give them all the same stupid awards. Reminds me a lot of these GOP and dEMO debates.
Joe – More and more, “damned if you do, damned if you dont” seems like a divine message.