I have said that I could enthusiastically support Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson, John McCain and Rudy Giuliani in the general election. They are all fine men. I was heartbroken Giuliani lost, but am now enthusiastically backing McCain.
https://tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/03/john-mccain-its-the-man-himself/
I am deeply troubled by the fact that republicans want to party like it’s 1992. It is one thing to engage in electoral stupidity as the result of cutting off noses to spite faces. It is another thing to repeat the same stupidity for a candidate that is significantly more conservative than our 1992 standard bearer.
So to those who have been blistering John McCain, I need to start naming names.
Rush Limbaugh…I own both of your books. I watched your tv show every night when it was on. I enjoyed your radio show. You were a Godsend in helping the republicans take over Congress in 1994. I have respected and admired you for some time now.
Sean Hannity–I own several of your books. I attended your Freedom Concert on 9/11 at Great Adventure in 2007. I met you personally. I watch your tv show every night. I am a big fan of yours.
Laura Ingraham–I saw you at the Freedom Concert as well. I was in the front row cheering your words. I own one of your books, and find you to be exceptionally bright and thoughtful. Your former boss, Clarence Thomas, is a fine man.
Ann Coulter–I saw you at the Freedom Concert from the front row, and I met you at the USC campus. I found you to be incredibly sweet, gracious, and friendly, taking time to speak to every person in line. I own several of your books.
Michelle Malkin–I am a frequent commenter on your blog. Your blog is one of the best blogs in the country. We must have some things in common because many of your readers visit my blog. I own at least one of your books, and find you to be stunningly brilliant and an incredibly effective communicator. I usually agree with you, and I do so enthusiastically.
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/02/08/stay-positive-and-stay-focused/#comments
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/02/07/video-mccain-at-cpac-not-quite-the-uniter-yet/
Mr. Hannity, Mr. Limbaugh, Ms. Ingraham, Ms. Coulter, Ms. Malkin…I beg of you…
Stop the madness. Enough. We get the point. You have difficulties accepting John McCain.
He won the nomination fair and square. He competed, and despite all of you having gigantic platforms, republicans chose him.
Some of your supporters have advocated everything from staying home to voting for Hillary Clinton. G. Gordon Liddy, no liberal at all, calls these people “Suicide Bomber Republicans.” John McCain is a war hero, and he will not be intimidated by suicide bombers anywhere in the world.
No, being a war hero does not “entitle” him to be President. Nobody is entitled to be President. What makes him worthy of being President is that he is by far the best person for the job. The republican electorate decided this.
Some will argue that he lost among “conservatives,” needing moderates and independents to win. So what? He played by the rules. He won.
Some will argue that Mike Huckabee siphoned away votes from Romney. Again, so what? Giuliani siphoned votes from McCain, which could have helped Romney had Giuliani stayed in. Again, McCain played by the same rules as the other candidates, and he won.
John McCain is the best man for the job among the remaining candidates because he wants to win the War on Terror, not cut and run. When his campaign was on the verge of collapse, he powerfully expressed that he “would rather lose an election than lose a war.” He never wavered on this position. His war heroism makes him admirable. His willingness to take a politically unpopular opinion when the other size is at its zenith, and stick with it, makes him a leader.
The liberals running for President were asked if winning or ending the war was more important. They stated that ending it was more important.
As for our side, which claims to want to win the war at any cost, we as conservatives can either be statesmen or spoiled brats. Rudy Giuliani is a statesman. He immediately backed John McCain. Mitt Romney is a statesman. His concession speech may one day be considered one of the all time great speeches. There is a slim chance he could have come back and won a bloody nomination battle. He put the good of the party…and the country…first. This is noble, decent, and worthy of a fine man such as himself.
I was pained when Giuliani lost. Yet if McCain is good enough for Giuliani, he should be good enough for his supporters. If the candidates can come together, then we as republican and conservative citizens can…and must…do so as well.
We have 2 options at this point.
1) Tear McCain’s eyes out, ensuring a Hillary Clinton victory and pure misery for conservatives.
Or, we can…
2) Knock it off, and FALL INTO LINE! After McCain wins, conservatives can then fight him when he is wrong. We did this with our current President.
President George W. Bush is a good man, but conservatives took him to the woodshed on steel tariffs, Harriet Myers, and other areas of concern. As a reward, we got Sam Alito. This is in addition to one of the most phenomenally brilliant legal minds on Earth, John Roberts.
Do none of the right wingers in this country remember 1992? Conservatives savaged the first President Bush, stayed home, and were rewarded with Ruth Bader Ginsburg. President Bush did get fooled by David Souter, but he is not the first President to get fooled. He also gave us Clarence Thomas.
Yes he was wrong to go against the gun owners, and he also raised taxes. So instead we got somebody who was worse on guns and taxes, and virtually every other issue.
Logical reasoning must trumpet raw emotion. We can work with McCain, or face a Clinton even worse than the first one.
So for those who are teetering over the cliff of sanity, again…
Knock it off!
FALL…INTO…LINE!
Terrorists everywhere hope that pettiness rules the day, allowing us to sabotage a man who would ruthlessly kill them everywhere.
We are at war, and we need a republican President that is hard right on the war.
John McCain is that man.
I pray that those on the right wake up and realize that something beats less than nothing.
Intraparty squabbles are healthy in primaries. That is what primaries are for. Intraparty squabbles are also healthy after winning an election. That is a part of governing. I would rather be arguing about what laws to pass, or in conservative cases, not pass, than be united in the ability to only obstruct. Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole had sharp differences, but they did move the country to the right, even with a democrat as President. Intraparty squabbles are the norm after losing an election. This is less enjoyable, but necessary. The blame game gets played out before the factions unite.
Intraparty squabbles are not ok in a general election. They are destructive. We need to rally around John McCain. As the Founding Fathers said, we either hang together or hang separately.
The Founding Fathers realized that the fate of America was at stake. Their very lives depended on coming together. Today it is no different. Back then it was the British. Today it is Islamofacist murderers.
I do not agree with John McCain on every issue. As I have said before, he is dead wrong on campaign finance reform. The McCain-Feingold legislation is one of the worst pieces of legislation in history. I also believe he is wrong on global warming, and drilling in ANWR.
These issues can be dealt with. Global warming will be the easiest because we will be trying to prevent bad laws that have not been enacted yet. A simple filibuster solves that problem. As for oil drilling and repealing campaign finance reform, we can apply pressure, and prevent anything further from being enacted.
On the War on Terror, John McCain is the guy. He will never waver. He spent 5 1/2 years in a prison. He was tortured. I disagree with him on that issue as well, but I will not dare question his moral authority on the issue. What I do know is that for 5 1/2 years, the enemy could not break him. He will not be broken by Al Queda, Iran, or any other terrorist entity. He is too tough.
We don’t need warm fuzzy platitudes about nonsense or shrill rhetoric about taxing the profits of legal American businesses that power the American economy.
We need, with all due respect, one tough S.O.B.
John McCain is one tough S.O.B.
He will not back down on the war. He will work with his fellow republicans. He might even install Mitt Romney as Treasury Secretary, and Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson as Vice President and Attorney General, in either order. Mike Huckabee could chair religious outreach. Duncan Hunter could be Secretary of Defense.
No, there are no guarantees. Nothing in life is guaranteed. Everything in life is risky. Nobody is perfect. Sainted Ronald Reagan, who I want minted into coins and placed on Mount Rushmore as much as any other good republican, raised taxes in 1982. Yet he absolutely gets a mulligan for that.
Give McCain his mulligans now that the primaries are over. After we win the election, we can help him govern. He will have to work with us. His benefits far outweigh his risks.
The same cannot be said of his liberal opponents. He may be a liberal darling now, but the Jayson Blair Times and their ilk will hate his guts soon enough. For one thing, he backed the surge.
All the republicans backed the surge. McCain settled for the surge, but actually backed a full scale escalation at the height of the war’s unpopularity. I would rather the candidate who from the beginning at the toughest political time backed one of the greatest military leaders of all time in General David Petraeus, as opposed to those that cower under the hate speech of Moveon.org and the other “Betray Us” lunatics.
John McCain is a good man, a good conservative, and oh yes, an American hero.
I trust the man himself. I did not back him in the primaries, but this conservative is now solidly backing him in the general election. Conservatives would do well to heed my advice.
So again, my dear fellow conservatives…
Knock it off!
FALL…INTO…LINE!
Back John McCain for President of the United States in 2008.
Respectfully,
eric
He won the nomination fair and square.
Not yet he hasn’t. Premature announcement.
We have 2 options at this point.
Wrong. Voting for Huckabee and having a brokered GOP Convention is still very possible.
Back Mike Huckabee for President of the United States in 2008.
Already there man.
I never bought into the “closet liberal” tripe that was being tossed at John McCain.
He has already said that he realizes some Cons are uncomfortable with him him on the border and a couple issues. But that he is willing to work to an agreement on them. I also want a guy in office that kicks terrorist butt, expeditiously and without blinking. His past actions show that he has proven to be a bulldog when needed.
Me like.
And yet still some conservatives just don’t get it. Even Micky sees the writing on the wall! The conservatives who have been attacking McCain need to shut up. He’s going to be the nominee, period. He’s your best chance to win the White House, period.
JMJ
[…] it Off? The Tygrrr Express writes today suggesting that conservatives need to just accept the fact that John McCain will be the Republican […]
Disagree strongly… we must resist John McCain and stand on principles – that is the only way to defeat the all-but-certain Democrat nominee: Obama….
see my response at: http://themccainmutiny.com/2008/02/08/knock-it-off/
Eric…SPOT ON!
I understand the “principle issues” with McCain. I also understand that those that are looking through the glass darkly and with blinders on are missing the point.
People don’t have to vote for McCain. But, if they stay home and throw a childish rant and hissy fit, they won’t be voting for the people running to replace the dhimmis and socialists that are up for re-election.
These people are to be discounted as loony.
I explain it in detail here:
http://www.anewtone.com/2008/02/get-fired-up.html
What do you mean “Even Micky?”
Give it to mikey, he’ll eat anything ?
Thats why I dont partake in conversation or debate that involves speculating what politicials and candidates will do based on numbers or opinions or perspective or bias commentary and news. I only deal with facts and relevant history. Even then its all to be taken with a grain of salt. Because 9 times out of 10 these guys and gals get into ofiice and do what they either want to do or needs to be done at the time having little to do with the previous campaign promises or our expectations.
You can only look at the big picture in the world/country and the majority of positives and or negatives in a candidate and hope for the best.
I’ve been watching these clowns for about 40 years now and all of them, left and right have a follow through and success rate of about 3 in 10 on the things they tell us they’ll do.
But if I’m going to have someone commit those 3 out of 10 promises I would trust McCain to be the one who might actually score a little higher
I am going to my Caucus in Washington State on Saturday. I am going to be casting my vote for Mitt Romney. I want to make a statement that Liberal McCain must earn my vote. He will not get a dime from me. His past policies over the last Decade have hurt Conservative causes. I will not support financially. I much rather take my dollars to support Conservatives in the House and Senate to try to get rid of the Democrats in this state at the local level and attempt to remove them from the House. The only protection we have from liberal policies is to get true conservatives in the House and Senate to block the liberal agenda that our Republican National LEadership and Democrat Party want to force on the Whole Country. I want to minimize the damage and destruction to our way of life as much as possible.
With all due respect.. Ummm.. Somehow I don’t think that our aversion to taking it up the posterior for the last several years with $3.00 per gallon gas, because people like McCain won’t drill in ANWAR, & want to fuel tax us into oblivion while they drink the Global Warming Koolaid, is going to cause people like Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Myself, or anyone else that’s opposing him be discounted as “Looney.” McCain will fuel tax our economy right into shambles as soon as he gets his hands on the Presidential pen.
Additionally, I would like to know for sure that after McCain takes office, someone won’t be walking arounf with a social security number on a card that reads Juan Hernandez, instead of my name.
I think you guys want the party to survive, & I don’t fault you for those feelings, but maybe it just needs a tear down & a rebuilt.
It’s hard work, & painful. We’ll have to start in the House & Senate. It will be a hated battel, so I encourage you all to start drinking a lot of water now, & stay off the McKoolaid.. ~Dan Lee
Good for you Eric!!!!! I was a Fred Thompson supporter and I have to agree with Mitt Romney, we MUST do what is best for the country and the party and if anyone thinks that Hillary or Obama will protect us, which should be our priority, then they are free to jump over to the Democratic side.
personally, I KNOW that they would destroy this country and I will not stay home, or write in someone not in the race, like a child, OR vote for the Dem candidates.
I will back McCain because he is far better than Obama or Clinton.
Wake up people… stop acting like children.
Well Dan.
You could always vote for Hillary or Obama or simply give mcCain his due credit and count your blessings.
By the way.
I think Ann Coulter is voting for Hillary like I’m crazy like a fox.
I was just teasing, Micky. ;)
Dan, if you think we can drill our way out of $3 gas, you’re living in Fantasyland. Oh, and by the way, if you think $3 is bad – wait til the pump prices finally catch up with the barrels!
JMJ
“I am going to be casting my vote for Mitt Romney” writes David Anfinrud.
I have said this on other blogs and I’ll state it again.
A vote for Romney is a vote for McCain!
Huckabee for President in 2008!
Actually Micky, I’m writing in Michelle Malkin in protest to this broken party that is in need of a good flushing out.
The only blessing in McCain, is that he’s brought us to that low point that an alcoholic or drug abuser needs to get to before they realize they need to stop what their doing, & clean up their lives. It’s been wisely said that, “The defintion of insanity is doing the same thing over & over, & getting the same result.”
By voting for McCain, that’s exactly what we’d be doing. Of course I can’t prove that to anyone right now, but I have a feeling I’ll be able to look back on this post with a peaceful heart. ~Dan Lee
Sorry about all my typos today.. We got blasted by Tornadoes here in middle Tennessee a couple days ago, & I haven’t slept well since.. ~Dan Lee
JMJ, I never implied that ANWAR was the whole solution, but it’s certainly a good start. If you can tell me how McCain’s pandering to global warming hysteria will help though, I’m all ears. Please be more objective in your comments about other’s comments ! ~Dan Lee
I want to make a statement that Liberal McCain must earn my vote.
David Anfinrud, I agree. The most effective way to make that statement is to vote for Huckabee.
Why do I assert that “A vote for Romney is a vote for McCain!”?
The rationale is that Huckabee is the only one who has a chance to derail the McCain Express to a a brokered GOP convention. By voting for Romney, you’re in essence voting for McCain because you are decreasing the likelihood that Huckabee will win enough delegates to force a brokered GOP convention.
I’m utterly serious. A vote for Romney is a vote for McCain. A vote for Huckabee is a vote for Huckabee and a vote to stop McCain. Think about it.
First of all, excellent article, Eric! I am in total agreement. :-)
Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, and others have suggested that it might be a good thing for our party if a Democrat wins. Right. The notion of hoping for a Democrat to win so “Republicans will wake up and nominate a more conservative person in 2012” is not only ridiculous but dangerous too.
What happens if the Democrat gets re-elected? What happens to the Supreme Court? What happens to the GWOT? What happens to the decent Iraqis who have fought along side our wonderful men and women after we “cut and run”? What kind of America will a Republican President inherit after 4 or 8 years of liberal rule?
For all those who decide to either sit out the election or vote for Hillary or Hussein Obama, I don’t want to hear one word from you during the next 4 years (and potential 8 years) about how you are disappointed in their presidency or how they’ve destroyed America, or how Iraq is turning into a terrorist playground. Not one word.
We need ALL Republicans – conservative, moderate and liberal – to stand behind our nominee. This conservative is going to fight tooth and nail to get McCain elected. My family and friend’s lives depend on it. Country First. Party Second.
Well Dan.
I have a lot of sobriety behind me. And I’ve been working with addicts and alcoholics for a decade now. With that said I can honestly say I am one of the more clear thinking people around. Along with my rock bottom and 15 years of sobriety I also learned forgivness and tolerance. Actually your sanity analogy works in the favor of McCain because he is not the “same” thing all over again, quite the opposite He is the one Con in a while that holds some attractivness for the left also.
By giving McCain hard time we are only increasing the attractivness of the two Dems out there right now.
And I would rather see McCain in office than either Hillary or Obama even though I dont appreciate every position he holds.
Call it the lesser of 3 evils if you like.
If we vote for Huckabee we will lose the White house. from the way it looks the only thing he hasnt tapped yet is the Evangelical vote. Thats his last trump card. And it doesnt look like it’ll get him enough delegates.
If people want to see what happens when this sort of split happens, principled or not, look at what happened in NY since 1990. In 1990 the NY GOP split. Fractured is more like it. And we haven’t recovered. We had one elctoral victory (Pataki), but have lost ground in the State Assembly, State Senate, and in Congress. The fratricidal infighting has driven away the people who are best qualified to seek office, that are best qualified to hold party leadership poisitions, and the wounds run very deep. And what did it get us? Sure three terms of Pataki, but we lost every other state wide office. It’s given us Eliot Spitzer and Andrew Cuomo. We have the most dysfunctional state government in the country. We have out of control porperty taxes and state mandated fees and excise taxes. Our energy prices are well above the national average.
And the anti-McCain crowd wants this to happen nation wide. It won’t give us a back lash like in 1994. That’s fantasy. All it will do is give the Dem’s a super majority in COngress and the White House. They will pack the Supreme Court. They will appoint even more activist judges. You will get socialized health “care,” you will get increased taxes, you will get all sorts of special priviledges for this group and that group. Free Speach? Politically Correct speach will become the law of the land. We will lose everything in Iraq. We will drop to our knees and beg forgiveness from Iran and North Korea. The Russians will expand their empire once again. The PRC will own the White House.
I’ve already gone through this on the state level. I have no desire to see it happen on the national level. Tearing down the party will not let it be rebuilt. It will be destroyed, and the conservative movement will alienate itself from the mainstream of America so badly as to become an almost irrelevant factor.
Well, it seems that even though for different reasons, we agree. Its just that there way too many people who seem to think that voting for a Democrat is better than voting for the “wrong” kind of Republican.
The American Middle (and the Shrill of Defeat)
Fact is that I’m thrilled that the others have dropped out, especially the former mayor, and I’m more than thrilled to vote for John McCain. Then again, I don’t consider myself to be a conservative.
Its time for everyone to grow up!
I am not a fan of Hillary and definitely not a fan of Obama. As a republican I am also disappointed in the candidates that are running. I admire and respect John McCain for the sacrifices he made for our country, especially during his captivity by the North Vietnamese. However, I don’t see eye to eye on some of his stands. The Republican Party as well as this country need another Ronald Regan to clean up this mess in the world today. None of them even come close to a Regan.
As for Obama being another JFK, give me a break!! He has no record to stand on showing him able to handle running our country. He is a super liberal and places the race card on the Clinton’s. He had Oprah rally for him; funny how all of a sudden she jumps into the political ring supporting someone. Obama belongs to a church whose Pastor says that Louis Farrakan is a prominent leader. He dodges all the issues with smooth talk. He is a good speaker and has a good campaign. Rally the youth around college campuses because he knows they support the issue of not going to war. Today’s youth are afraid of a draft because they don’t have the guts to fight for freedom. If it wasn’t for the brave men and women in our military sacrificing their lives for the sake of freedom who would our country turn to.
If this is what the majority of the country wants we are going to have a real rough road ahead of us. This is probably the most important election in our history, I only hope that voters really look deep into these candidates before flipping the switch in the election booth.
I’m going to clean this up a bit for polite company:
Let’s say you tell me that we have a choice between intimate relations with a goat and intimate relations with a horse. You say our best choice is the goat because even if we get kicked, it won’t be fatal.
I say I do not want to be intimate with either, and you lecture me to ‘fall in line” for the goat.
Sorry if that’s not enough incentive.
Well Chris, what are your choices ?
What wiil you do ?
I respectfully disagree with you, Eric. McCain is a RINO, and I guess conservatives are sick of having RINOs shoved down our political throats. It will not hurt this country if we end up having four years of a liberal, and may be the sort of political spanking this country needs to shape up. I’m still hoping for Huckabee to earn the nomination.
Spanking ?
You better put on some extra briefs and throw in a couple of dictionaries to keep your butt from being blisterd.
It won’t hurt will it? Are you that sure of it? Do you have some super secret knowledge of the future? I don’t. If anything, I see the exact opposite. I see some six supreme court justices facing retirement. Who ever is in office will replace them. What sort of justice will a Hillary or Obama appoint, and likely get confirmed? How many House and Senate races will be lost because of this fratricidal infighting? You want the rest of the nation to go the way we have in NY? Like I said before, I’ve seen this first hand. I even hold some guilt for it because I voted for Herb London on the Conservative line back in 1990. It’s been 18 years since then, and we’re still so fractured that we can barely field candidates in all races, even for State offices.
I do like G.Gordon Libby’s comment that those who are proponents of this “spanking” plan are “political suicide bombers.” You’re only going to end up like the nitwits in Afghanistan who blew themselves and their compatriots up. You are doing nothing but enabling the Democrats, giving them a smooth and easy ride not only to victory, but in ensconcing their positions so well, that it will take decades to reverse, if that is even possible.
And would somebody tell me when the guiding precepts of conservatism became commandments written in stone? Have people so soon forgotten how Reagan achieved what he did? Have they forgotten that he too reached across the aisle? It’s not an all or nothing game. Never has been, never will be. It’s about getting what you can, and using that as a basis for achieving more.
Feh. Apologies to G.Gordon for my misspelling. Should be Liddy not Libby.
And to Radiant Times (and whoever else), I guess the opposite is also true…that Republicans are tired of having “social conservatives” shoved down their throats. There used to be a “Conservative Party.” Maybe its time for a resurrection of that party. If “social conservatism” is so pervasive in this country, then it might now be a viable third party.
I do not support the Democratic party or its candidates. I believe in small(er) government, I believe in the elimination of oppressive taxes like the “death tax,” I believe in strong national defense, homeland security and enforcement of the rule of law through strong steps against illegal immigration…but I do not agree with the “social conservative agenda.”
Dan, ANWR is a red herring. Pure silliness. We should be moving away from oil, not looking for a little more of it here and there. That’s just thinking backwards. We need to think ahead. McCain is not a panderer. He’s a pragmatist and he’s honest. That’s why the hard right doesn’t like him. He doesn’t pander to their fantasyland beliefs.
JMJ
Mickey,
I will exercise my right as and American and vote my conscience, and if my conscience tells me to not vote for any candidate for president (I will vote in the election if only to defeat the stupid initiatives and such), then that’s what I’ll do.
I am a grown man after all.
JMJ;
“We should be moving away from oil, not looking for a little more of it here and there. That’s just thinking backwards. We need to think ahead.”
Drilling ANWR is thinking ahead. Other energy producing methods have been proved worthy and useful ( windmills are a joke) Hydrogen fuels cells for cars and NUke elctricity are all possible. Its the transition that is going to take time. Our whole countrys infrastructure is based on oil conversion of some sort. Untill we completely move away from oil we will still need it to maintain a consistant economy.
This some say may take as long as 2050 or as little time as 2025.
We need to meake sure we can always maintain a safe supply of oil until all other options have proven viable.
That is pragmatism !
http://www.postcarbon.org/solar_mobility_shock_therapy
Eric, Thought-provoking article. Your timing for me is off – I am a Huck supporter, and maybe I missed the fat lady… Once it’s over, and if he’s the nominee, then I agree wholeheartedly that we should fall in line to prevent a BHO/HRC or HRC/BHO president/vp combo.
Interesting to note that one of the top ten reasons Reps “hate” McCain is because he “works with democrats”. I would think that would be an attribute. Another of the top ten is the fact he didn’t support cutting taxes. I am no fan of taxes, and I believe the longer term benefits of tax cuts provide for more tax revenue. However, his argument about not cutting taxes was because we didn’t know how much the war is going to cost. Maybe I’m giving him too much credit to jump to the conclusion that he was advocating what I inferred is a war tax. If implemented, citizens as contributors may look at the GWOT as something that affects us all, and not simply the Soldiers and their families. By taking ownership of GWOT as a nation, we have a much better chance of success.
No one doubted your age Chris.
But the question still remained.
I lost my right to vote due to my retched past.
But if I still had that right I would vote for McCain just to make sure those other two cheerleaders dont get in.
Horse, donkey ?
If I choose neither I’ll get stuck with one anyway. So unfortunatly , now I have to go figure out if I like horses or donkeys better.
I wont need a step ladder to figure this one out.
Micky, “I wont need a step ladder to figure this one out.”… the visual on this one had me cracking up! One can work with a known entity (McCain), and one can reasonably expect to NOT be able to work with another known entity (Clinton)… which leaves us with a pig in a poke…he isn’t ready for prime time. This is a grown up world of realities and not platitudes. Of course, you wouldn’t need a ladder for the latter…
Sorry, Eric, absolutely no sale.
I also find a couple things you wrote very interesting:
“Knock it off, and FALL INTO LINE!”
McCain write that line for you? Sure has his sense of diplomacy and concern for “fellow conservatives” written all over it.
And what’s with all this “hero” stuff all the time? Yes, he’s a vet who did his job. But getting shot down and captured doesn’t turn one into a “hero”. I was there, and managed not to get captured. Does that make me an even bigger “hero”? In WW2, when Wainright surrendered, he also surrendered the entire Phillipines. Does that make him the biggest “hero” of WW2?
Further, using Bush as a yardstick doesn’t do your argument any good. Bush has been pretty much a failure, particularly the last 2 or 3 years. Scamnesty, NCLB, Scrips for Seniors, totally abandoning Social Security reform, this absurd and contemptible “tax rebate”. IMO, he was right on the tax cuts and the war, and was saved from his own incompetence on SCOTUS appointments when his feet were held to the fire by conservative outrage. Conservative outrage will have no impact in Emperor McCain, the guy who takes so much pride in being a “maverick” (which means someone who goes their own way) and “reaching across the aisle”.
McCain’s presidency will make Bush’s look like the good old days of Reaganism by comparison.
Nope. I’d rather the Dems win. Let the disastrous proposals to come have a (D) behind the name, rather than an (R).
Living in California, I’ve watched the constant leftward drift of this state’s GOP progress to the point where there’s no difference anymore between the parties. There are the Dems and the Dem-Lites. A Governator who should be in the other party. I’ll be damned if I’ll cooperate in helping the same thing happen at the national level.
LBJ gave us Nixon (conservative for his era) and Carter gave us Reagan. Maybe another Dem administration will help the GOP once again pull their collective heads out of their butts.
Brian R;
“LBJ gave us Nixon (conservative for his era) and Carter gave us Reagan. Maybe another Dem administration will help the GOP once again pull their collective heads out of their butts.”
In a time of war Brian I dont think its feasable to think that way. The scenario for Iraq is dim should either hillary or Obama get in. I have a feeling Iraq will of all been for nothing should either one of these two get their way.
I will stuff my pride and choose the lesser of three evils rather than have 3000 + soldiers die for nothing.
Mickey, tell you what, pard. In my almost 59 years on this planet, there hasn’t been a day when we haven’t been at war, of one kind or another, in many cases with enemies who were far more dangerous than a bunch of disorganized Islamo-fascists (IF) in the Middle East. The Soviet Union had the power to totally destroy us (as well as all of civilization). The idea of subsuming all other issues to the war issue is very dangerous to this country’s future. The IF can’t destroy this country, but we can certainly do it to ourselves if we sacrifice all that makes us a free and viable society on the altar of war hysteria.
This whole “we’ll get our savior if we let the devil win” is nonsense. If anything, the exact opposite will be true. This is not 1968. This is not 1980. The Dem’s aren’t going to totally self destruct like they did then. No, this is shaping up to be the Republican version of 1980, so we face the very real danger of 8 years of Hillary or Obama. As I said above, thinnk of what that would do. Think of what will happen to SCOTUS, to our tax rates, to our ability to think for ourselves.
So Eric could have been a bit more diplomatic about making the argument. But at this point, with all the nay sayers throwing childish hissy fits, I fully and completely sympathize with him. Heck, I’m starting to get that welling up of anger at the irrationality of the “Cartman Argument.” That is “Screw you guys I’m going home.” So you didn’t get your way despite the public fit you threw. Enough. Grow up. This is not some 3rd grade school yard tussle.
We’re supposed to be better than this. We’re supposed to be the mature political party. We’re supposed to be the ones who have the “Big Tent” and make the grand effort to work with one another to achieve common goals. But because one faction didn’t like the way one tower of the sand castle looks, they want to kick the whole thing down.
You want a reasonable, rational, mature take on this? Look here:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/016923.php
Ed Morrissey more than gets it. Why can’t anyone else?
Brian;
“Mickey, tell you what, pard. In my almost 59 years on this planet, there hasn’t been a day when we haven’t been at war, of one kind or another,”
I’m not much younger than you.
I think you need to learn the difference between the calibres of wars that we have been involved in.
The war we face today is a movement. not a government or a country. It has permeated itself into societies across the nation. So spare me the history lesson because I am well aware of the threat, its implications and the movements capabilities. When they are able to cross our borders they have automatically become our most dangerous threat so far. Just behind the Japanese whom did attack our soil they never set foot on our soil as covert radical Islamic opperatives using our system and its tools against us.
There is no ” IF ” or ” disorganized Islamo facists” as you say. Its is a reallity that has proven itself capable and organized many times over, 911 being the most obvious. And the movement from Al Queda to Hamas to Hezzbola have sworn to kill us all no matter who is in the white house.
No one is subsuming anything to the war. But when your walls are threatened everything else is pretty much meaningless.
Plain and simple, we must protect what we have first.
And the second thing we must deal with is not letting all the soldiers who have died in both wars to have died for nothing.
Obama has already displayed his ignorance on foriegn affairs when he said he would bomb Pakistan and negotiate with Iran.
Hillary will no doubt do what is inly in her best interest.
Im sure McCain can grease the wheels just as well as anyone else in office but I’m sure he will tackle the GWOT in more admirable fashion than the two dems up front.
Brian;
“if we sacrifice all that makes us a free and viable society ”
You use ” IF ” to make your point on war hysteria but you allow it to promote finacial and loss of freedom hysteria.
We are and I have great faith that we will always be a free and viable nation. That would be attribited toovercoming the threats we have had in the past such as we are doing now. I would like to know what freedoms we have lost as a result of the GWOT.
Who is talking about sacrificing anything ?
Mickey and Deacon.
Nope, no sale. Trying to equate the IF terrorists with the Soviet Union is beyond laughable; it’s desperate.
As to the “eight years of Hillary” hysteria, here’s a history lesson for you. Since FDR, the ONLY Dem President elected twice to the office was Clinton.
As to that “Big Tent”, it’s nonsense. Conservatism — CONSERVATISM — is what sells. You can “Big Tent” your way into becoming California, if you want, but I’m not playing. I already have to live in this state, and am not interested in destroying the rest of the country. I became a Republican because it was the party that — at the time — represented my philosophy, not because I have some weird affinity for the letters “GOP”. The minute it doesn’t serve my philosophy anymore, I’m gone. I care about my principles and ideology, and couldn’t acre less whether a “party” wins or not.
I’m a conservative first, and a Republican a far distant second.
No sale, guys.
Further, I JUST got a call from the “National Republican Senatorial Committee”. As soon as the guy said the name, I started chuckling and said:
“I am not contributing one thin dime to the GOP. With McCain? Are you kidding me?”
And hung up the phone.
THAT’S the message I intend to send, at every opportunity. Hit ’em where it hurts, in the pocketbook.
That’s the ONE THING I know they understand. Money talks, and bulls**t walks.
Brian, You make some interesting arguments, but I am going to dance with the devil I know (McCain if he gets the nod) rather than take my toys home. Maybe I can work within the party to effect change – a lot easier than doing it from without.
I don’t agree with you about the Soviet threat. At one time, they had about 6 times as many field artillery, mechanized, and armor “pieces” than we did, but upon further review, we learned that they became rust buckets that wouldn’t shoot or fire because they were an empty army. Further, the quality of soldiers was really bad. They were totally ineffiective unless their immediate supervisors were standing over them – unlike the US Army and the Islamo Fascists. The latter, unlike the Soviet privates, are innovative, somewhat self-supporting, and independent. Moreover, they are not conscripts. As a former serviceman, you know it is far easier fighting a known enemy – especially a conventional force with uniforms, loyalty to one country, and rules of engagement – than it is to fight a philosophy. With dedication, time, and education, this can be done. To the IF and any insurgent, it’s still about the basics – food, shelter, security, and future prospects – hope. Religion, whether Jewish, Muslim, or Christian, serves as a means for many people to sustain that hope. So does killing others because they have something you don’t.
Eegle, that’s totally cool. I ALWAYS urge others to vote their consciences, and it’s NEVER my intention to tell others they’re wrong and I’m right.
I wouldn’t presume to do that; I firmly believe everyone should vote as they best see fit after careful consideration of all the issues, options, and ramifications involved.
I ask only that others give ME the same consideration.
What I do is simply state what my position is, and why it is that way. The idea is to give people something to consider, and an insight into how I think. Not that I think I’m “all that”, or Da Bomb, but I believe I may represent a conservative mindset that’s not particularly swayed by pure party politics.
Also, let’s face it, the idea here is to have fun, and for political junkies, this kind of discussion IS fun.
At this point I’m becoming far more comfortable with letting you take your toys and go home because the rest of the class doesn’t want to play your game. Fine. You want to martyr yourself for no rational reason, be my guest. You’ll find it’s a lonely existence as the only perfect conservative in the land.
So the Big Tent is nonsense is it? Reagan was wrong about it? Reaching out to as many Americans as possible and to try and bring them over was and is wrong? Funny. Really it is. I love how the hard liners invoke Reagan, but convieniently forget all that he did to broaden the appeal of the Republican party, and to be in tune with what the voters want. Reagan couldn’t win today with this crowd. He’d be too “liberal” for them!
You complain about what has happened in California. At there’s still a GOP to at least try and save! But instead of that, you want to recreate NY in California and the rest of the country. I will not willingly be a party to that. Nor am I willing to give in to what amounts to political blackmail and extortion.
If all of you “my way or the highway” types are so convinved that a 3rd party can really win, go for it. Do it. Shut about about it and do it. I know that you will be sorely disappointed in how fast you will succumb to the Dem’s and the GOP. I know, I’ve seen it happen first hand. You’re out of touch with the American voter. They’re tired of the same old rants and ravings of the talking head right (most of whom have never done anything other than talk!).
And no Stalinist purge will purify the party to your liking. Even if you go form your 3rd party (ask Ross Perot and the Indepence Party how well that worked out, oh yeah 8 years of Bubba), you will have to constantly toss out anyone who dares to object to your vision of conservative purity. FEH.
It’s not the McCain’s of the world who are giving conservatism a bad name, it’s attitudes like this, where purity over pragmatism is once again reigning supreme.
PS, Eagle, as bad off as the USSR turned out to be militarily, you can’t possibly be suggesting the IFs are a BETTER force, and MORE of a threat, can you?
It’s simply not even remotely true.
Also, just for clarification, I happen to be pro-war; I think we should have gone into Iraq. But I think Bush has bungled the whole affair very badly, the Iraqis aren’t stepping up to the plate and getting their s**t together, the idea of a democracy in the Muslim ME is a pipe dream, and if we’re not going to do it right — and we’re not, right now — we should get back the hell out.
Well, Deacon, show me one sentence in which I “invoked” Reagan. Show me the sentence where I mentioned talking about forming a “third party”.
If you want to respond to what I write, it would probably be helpful if you stuck to what I actually wrote.
Otherwise, what you end up with is what YOU wrote: a rant.
Brian;
“Nope, no sale. Trying to equate the IF terrorists with the Soviet Union is beyond laughable; it’s desperate.”
Answer me this Brain. How many Americans have the Soviets killed in the last 40 years ? And how many world citizens and Americans have terrorists killed in the last 80 years ? In your 59 years this should be a cake walk for you. Or a simple cursory tour of the net would educate you.
Theres no ” Hysteria ” over Hillary on my part any more than I am hysterical about McCain.
But I must say, if anyone sounds hysterical about anything its you and your sentiments for McCain.
I’m not in agreement with him on everything. But I disagree a lot more with Hillary and Obama.
No one of course is expected to change your mind about anything.
But if either one of the two dems out there succeed in taking the White House I would be the last to complain.
Brian-
I never said you invoked Reagan. Reread what I wrote. Note specifically the terms used when I referred to invoking Reagan.
As for the 3rd party bit, it was implied in what you said:
“The minute it doesn’t serve my philosophy anymore, I’m gone. I care about my principles and ideology, and couldn’t acre less whether a “party” wins or not.
I’m a conservative first, and a Republican a far distant second.”
That certainly sounds like you’ll go 3rd party to me. But as there isn’t one out there that would be “conservative” enough for you, I merely took the next logical step which would be to form your own. IF I over inferred (which I don’t think I did), then I apologize. But if your whole thing is to withhold money and sit home instead of going to the polls to force a change, it’s not going to work.
And yes I am ranting. I make no bones about it. Why? Because this has grated on me so bad, that I no longer have any desire to hold it back. This stupid, childish infighting is not serving anyone’s best interests. Not mine, not yours, not the GOP, not conservatism, not the country. And it bothers me that people are putting their own person predilictions over the good of the country to “prove a point” or to “punish” some entity.
Micky, we’ve been in Iraq for what? 5 or 6 years? We’ve lost around 3,000 troops. By this time in Vietnam we’d lost tens of thousands, and Vietnam was a third-rate country. I know. That was my war. I was there.
The number of our guys killed by the Soviets is absolutely irrelevant; we were in a Cold War with them for over 50 years, which could easily have ended up meaning the end of human civilization. The IFs are a chickns**t force that gets lucky occasionally.
You consider my thoughts on McCain “hysterical”. Fine. You’re entitled to your opinion. This “hysterical” vote isn’t going his way, nonetheless.
But a little history seems in order again. In 2006 we had the “Speaker Pelosi, Majority Leader Reid” hysteria, basically exactly what we’re seeing THIS time. It didn’t sway conservatives, did it? The GOP lost BOTH houses of Congress, a very underwhelming performance.
And that hasn’t turned out so badly. The Dems have managed to run congressional approval ratings singlehandedly down to record lows, while also getting the appropriate blame. They have to take the heat for their own lousy performance, all while not managing to pass much of anything.
It won’t work THIS time, either.
If I have a choice between a Dem and a Dem-Lite, I’ll work for my congressman — who firtunately happens to be a great conservative — and pass on the presidential vote.
If nothing else, when I criticize McCain as President, I can do it with a clear conscience because I didn’t vote for the guy. It’s called self-respect.
Deacon, your denial is merely a face-saving device.
In direct response to my post, with my name on it, you wrote “I love how the hard liners invoke Reagan”.
How else should I take that, but that you’re saying that I, as a “hard-liner”, am invoking Reagan?
As to your saying I’m “implying” something about third-parties, that’s absurd. It should be fairly clear I have an excellent grasp of the language, and how to express myself. If I want to say something, I’ll say it directly.
Any implication you’ve derived from what I’ve written is YOUR issue, not mine.
PS, Deacon,
I find it interesting that you call one’s principles “predelictions”. Like it’s some whim or fancy, an idiosyncracy.
Look at my 12:27 post. I joined the GOP because it represented my principles, and when it stops doing so, it stops getting my vote. I value my vote highly; it has to be earned. Nobody else tells me how I should cast it.
And here ya go, now I AM going to invoke Reagan. Specifically, his thoughts on how he used to be a Dem, and how he didn’t leave that party, it left him.
Precisely how many conservatives feel at this point in history.
Brian;
“The number of our guys killed by the Soviets is absolutely irrelevant; we were in a Cold War with them for over 50 years, which could easily have ended up meaning the end of human civilization. The IFs are a chickns**t force that gets lucky occasionally.”
Relevance is not the issue. Facts are.
Some of these facts were mentioned by Eagle in comment #42.
You’re actually beggining to sound like Jersey Mcjones and the rest of the misguided left that wants to minimize our enemy.
Brian;
“The IFs are a chickns**t force that gets lucky occasionally.’
Please, lets restudy the english language here. ” IF ” is a presumptive term.
Our enemy is not an ” IF “. Please top this foolishness. It discredits your arguement immensely. Our enemy is proven and sworn to end western lifstyles everywhere.
And if you were honest you would look into the deaths caused by Radical islamists , middle eastern jihadist movements and Islamo facists. These groups have worked their way into every society on the planet. Africa is looming with Terrorist growth as is Indonesia.
THERE IS NO IF !!! There just ” IS ” at this point ! Get with the program and get past Nam and the cold war and identify the enemy we have today as .
Surely you would not like to see something like that begin to rear its ugly head again now, would you ?
Whatever stopped anyone from critisizing the man they voted for ?
With Hill and Obama in office and Dem congress your congressman may be rendered a joke.
Think of the balance, or lack there of that may be.
Typo correction;
Big chunk got left out, sorry, should say.;
“Nam and the cold war and identify the enemy we have today as one that has adopted its doctrine from Nazi Germany.
Surely you would not like to see something like that begin to rear its ugly head again now, would you ?
Nope, Mickey, no sale.
You simply regurgitate the same old hysteria. Hey, knock yourself out! It’s a free country.
I happen to be not only a vet, but an Army brat. I was raised in the military, know my way around pretty well, and if you think you can ever convince me that the IF, or Radical Extremists or whatever name you want to use, is a viable threat to the existence of this country…. dream on.
I was raised with this stuff, lived it for well over twenty years of my life, lived for 5 of those years in Iran and travelled throughout the region, my Mom was born and raised there (Armenian), I still have family living there and I ain’t buying it, pard.
Funny how so many guys with little or no military experience are so ready to drool all over McCain’s capture as a “hero” thing, but so ready to discount the military expertise of those woth whom they disagree.
“Get over the Vietnam thing”. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds coming from a McCain supporter?
Isn’t that the WHOLE BASIS of his supposed super-credentials to be Commander in Chief?
Brian, Appreciate your candor and especially your willingness to consider others’ views. In fairness to you and the discussion, I’ll concede that going head-to-head with the Soviets would have cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives – not only because even if only a fifth of their rust buckets moved or shot, the devastation would have been brutal. Also, I conveniently neglected to mention their nuclear threat – ok, so they didn’t have sophisticated delivery systems, and their SCUDs had an accuracy of give or take 3000 meters, but they were powerful weapons, nonetheless – and you don’t have to be real accurate with a nuke. But a war with the Soviets would have been “cleaner” in the sense that because they are a “country” of people with a recognized army, once we defeated them, it would be over. Not so with the IF. This will take time, education, and patience.
I’ve written in the past what mistakes were made – disbanding the Iraqi Army, trying to give too much control too soon to an “entitlement” mentality, using too small a force, and several years of brutalizing the Iraqis as “occupiers”, and living in isolated semi-secure Forward Operating Bases. In the mornings, we would roll out like the duck shoots in carnivals, waiting for snipers and IED attacks that had been staged the evening previously…. I was responsible for training ARNG units for deployment, so I deployed for a couple months to bring back lessons-learned to better focus training… I conducted right seat rides with a unit exercising cordon searches… we banged on the door of an upper middle class family (doctor), and immediately rounded up everyone in the home, put them in one room, and began searching the house. The Kurdish interpretor was rude and impatient, and you could see the innate hatred between the Sunni head of household and interpretor… we asked questions and took their pictures – something that had been done many, many times before… we insulted them by not accepting their offers of tea, and we generally broke things in homes inadvertently… and we went to a businessman’s home, and to a professor’s home…and to a state worker’s home… and the story was the same…we come out of our FOBs, make noise, and go back to relative safety (we were mortared and rocketed almost every night, but there were few injuries – in fact, some soldiers were so enamored with getting the CAB or CIB (Combat Action Badge / Combat Infantryman’s Badge) that they would “chase” the mortar/rocket fire to see if they could get close enough to be awared the medal – which is one of the reasons we have more casualties than we should, but that’s another story)… But now we are embedding with the Iraqi Army and Police and living with them, establishing relationships, and showing them “what right looks like”, at least militarily. One would have to go back to WWI to understand some of the distrust – the British “occupied” Iraq, made some promises, and left, leading to a slaughter they haven’t forgotten…
I believe the IF are a greater threat because it will take the aforementioned time, education, and dedication, and I’m not convinced we have the stomach for the long haul. This lack of “stomach” is what will be our ruin as a nation – we want fixes NOW, and if they aren’t readily available, we’ll snatch at what looks good today… sorry, I hit the ramble button
Brian;
“Funny how so many guys with little or no military experience are so ready to drool all over McCain’s capture as a “hero” thing, but so ready to discount the military expertise of those woth whom they disagree.”
Show me where I mentioned anything about McCains being a hero ?
As far as expertise goes. I live next to a Marine Base in Hawaii and speak to our boys every day. And I am very able to study what I want to learn.
I dont care if you’re General Patton.
I have a history that could be just as formidable in making an arguement as yours.
My Danish mother and grandmother where raped tortured and thrown in camps by Nazis. My Jewish father never knew who his parents were. And I have educated myself very well on something I never want to see happen again.
Bobby Flay may have a larger audience than me and traveled the world. But if you put him in a kitchen in the finest restaraunt in the country with me, I would humiliate and eat him alive.
Brian;
“Get over the Vietnam thing”. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds coming from a McCain supporter?
Yes ! get over it ! Because I never put him on pedestal for his service or used it as a basis for my supporting him.
You’re drifting, pard.
Eagle, I understand what you’re saying, and I’ll tell you something, I don’t discount the issue, because it’s a war of ideologies.
(btw, I wondered why you never mentioned the nuclear aspect of the Cold War)
But in that sense, there are similarities to the Cold War. This is going to go on for a loooooooong time. It’s not going to be decided in the next year or the next administration. It’s not going to be decided in Iraq, either. That’s merely one front in the war. It’s not going to be decided with the death of bin Laden…. even though McCain’s going to “chase him” wherever an old man thinks he can chase him.
We’re talking about something that has overtones of the Moorish Conquests and the Crusades; a VERY long process. Decades, at least.
Repub administrations and Dem administrations are going to come and go during that time.
THAT’S what I’m talking about.
My concern is this. The GOP has traditionally been the home for certain conservative principles. Even when we haven’t had the most conservative candidates, there were certain ideals which were considered inviolable: fiscal resaponsibility, gun rights, small goverment, law and order (including border control), some others.
The candidacies of McCain and Giuliani necessarily entail the abandonment of many, if not all, of those core principles. Once they’re gone, they’re gone for good, if California, Massachussetts, Washington State, and Oregon are any example.
If the GOP is no longer home for those principles…. they become orphans, and THAT’S the real danger I’m concerned about.
Then what?
Hahahahaha, Micky.
Yeah, you live next to a military base.
How droll. Quite a background, there.
Maybe in your case, it is literally a “background”. Do you have a view of it from your yard?
Brian;
“Repub administrations and Dem administrations are going to come and go during that time.”
The republicans wiil no doubt be more affective in dealing with radical Islamists.
So why allow the dems any more opportunity to screw up than they should be afforded ?
Brian;
“If the GOP is no longer home for those principles…. they become orphans, and THAT’S the real danger I’m concerned about.
Then what?”
You sound as if you would like to hasten the process you are being so hystericaly afraid of.
Your wonderful congressman will be useless in a totally democratic administaration. along with a totally dem White house.
thats the real danger I’m concerned about !
Because the collateral damage of such a government is going to be far worse that what you are hystericaly afraid of loosing right now.
This country is not an addict that needs to bottom out before we realize what it is we need. We do not need to sacrifice to the Dems for 8 years to know what needs to be done. If that is as little faith as you have in the republican and conservative movement in this country you are far scarier than any scenario you portray.
Brian;
“Yeah, you live next to a military base.”
Yessiree Bob.
Marine Corps Base Hawaii (MCBH), formerly Kaneohe Marine Corps Air Station (KMCAS). A lot of the guys shop off base and come through my wifes line where she works. her and I are always asking whatever since the media as we all know has a varied presentation of the facts. I stop everyone of them within my means and shake their hands and thank them. I ask them everything from what its like to if they think its worth it.
Brian;
“How droll. Quite a background, there”.
Actually, its probably the most beautiful base in the country with its own wetlands and is a peninsula surrounded by the ocean , also it has a variety of recreational activities open to the public from concerts to deep sea fishing
Brian;
“Maybe in your case, it is literally a “background”. Do you have a view of it from your yard?”
All I have to do is drive 1 minute up my hill and walla ! When the blue Angels and the Thunderbirds come we dont have to drive to the base.
And tommorow. I’m going to the Pro Bowl, and you’re not.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .
Oooooooooooooookay, Micky!
The Pro Bowl. That might actually mean something to me if I cared about spectator sports. I don’t. But I’ll pretend to be cut to the quick if that’ll make you feel better, because I’m a nice guy.
Other than that, your post was very entertaining, and quite irrelevant to the whole discussion.
But I have to say, I do think you have a pretty good sense of humor. The way you phrased a couple of things was pretty good.
Lighten up, man! Believe it or not, we’re not going to solve the world’s problems here on Eric’s blog (though I’m sure he wishes we could).
And you’re not going to change my mind. The upside for you is, I know I’m not going to change yours, either.
Actually Brian I addressed everything very well and accuratly. But I dont waste my time on repeating myself when people wont at least acknowledge rational validity.
I’m just one man and I told you in the beggining i did not expect to change your mind.
Post # 47; ” No one of course is expected to change your mind about anything.”
But since you failed to answer any of my questions and like the looney left you want to diminish the threat of our enemy I will not bother persisting.
Instead I will try to make you laugh because i know you could use a good one by now
1)” I would like to know what freedoms we have lost as a result of the GWOT.”
2)”Who is talking about sacrificing anything ?”
3)”Answer me this Brain. How many Americans have the Soviets killed in the last 40 years ? And how many world citizens and Americans have terrorists killed in the last 80 years ? ”
4)”Surely you would not like to see something like that begin to rear its ugly head again now, would you ?”
5)”Whatever stopped anyone from critisizing the man they voted for ?”
6)”Show me where I mentioned anything about McCains being a hero ?”
7)”So why allow the dems any more opportunity to screw up than they should be afforded ?”
As you can see theres a lot you dont want to or cant addresss.
So spare me the ” condescending irrelevance speach ”
I deal with worse than you all day long and make my points quite well thank you.
At least now if anything you know that at least one ore intelligent person thinks you’re wrong
Aloha.
Well, Micky, I’m not going to re-write everything I’ve written in posts with the names of people other than you and keep repeating myself over and over, simply changing the name of the other commenter.
I’m on this blog everyday and read everything everyday.
I also read the return comments to you by everyone else.
Many of which you failed to reply to in a cognitive manner.
Some of your better points were acknowledged by others and I saw no need for me to repeat those compliments.
I am probably different than anyone you imagine.
If I thought it was worth it I will take you to task for any unanswerd questions and or items dodged. And I will be more than glad to show you where your arguements have been shot down.
If you think I’m banging my drum, you’re right. Look back in the archives of this blog and you will see that I am one of the most tenascious SOBs you will ever meet.
Micky and Brian, I don’t take lightly people’s positions and perspectives, and I’m a newcomer to this scene, so if I am breaking protocol, hammer me at will…
I enjoy both of your posts, and you two epitomize the great American and Republican ways of life – what makes us so unique is our fighting spirit – it reminds me of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines (no, this isn’t a commercial)… but when these men aren’t on a mission to combat an enemy, they are fighting amongst themselves. Tthere’s beauty in that phenomena because each service member takes pride in his unit or branch of service. Likewise, when Republicans have at it, it shows passion and demonstrates each individual’s personal journey to impose his will and do what is right for this country.
Cool.
Micky and Eagle,
I’m going to refer you back to what I wrote — on THIS thread — in my 1:37 post: I don’t CARE what you think. I hope that comes through clearly this time. I consider uninformed on military matters, an inexperienced guy looking over his fence at a military installation and claiming it confers some expertise.
Eagle, it’s been really fun talking with you. We may not agree fully, but I think we’re both looking down the same barrel.
A general statement on my conservatism.
I enlisted in the Army in 1969 and went to Vietnam. I did that in my last year of college — from which I was safe from the draft still in effect at the time — because I strongly felt the principles that adhered demanded my participation (I completed college later).
I could have played it safe, been more popular (Yeah, as a Nam returnee, I got my share of abuse), laid more long-haired girls, been the “great guy” to a bunch of liberals for refusing to serve, gone along with the flow, avoided combat, and just generally had a much easier life.
No. I didn’t do that. Instead, I went AGAINST the flow, argued all the time with my “peers” and contemporaries, had people shooting at me, watched me and my fellow vets portrayed in the movies and TV as “drug-crazed psychopaths”, and all the rest of that nonsense.
Oh, please.
Like I said Brian. I do not gauge McCains abilty to run this country by his military experiences any more than I expect you and your services in the military to be the cornerstone of authouritive knowledge on anything in this matter.
As a matter of fact it is valid as only another opinion to me.
This not about military matters really, so spare me the name calling. It only shows that you are frustrated.
It is about who we think is best to run this country. And I am along with every American citizen allowed to discuss this and voice my concerns without being subjected to your snobbery and condescending attitude.
I value your service and will thank you till the day I die. But do not underestimate the ability of your fellow citizens to be educated on matters that you think you are somehow more qualified to speak of than others because you went to Nam.
I am quite capable of reading and bringing knowledge into my world , just as you are.
Maybe I’m better at this than you, maybe not.
No koolaide here my friend.
I deal with facts only. And the facts are that we are at war with those who have attacked us repeatedly and have sworn to do so again.
The facts are that Republicans have as matter of record finished more wars for this country than the Dems.
The facts are that McCain has more experience in our government than Obama and Hillary put together.
What you choose to do with those facts is not only obvious, but quite frankly closer to kool aid and misconception than most moonbats I’ve debated.
But that is your problem.
You will vote the way you see fit. And god bless you for doing it when you do.
I am not allowed to vote so I do what I can to make a difference in the field by spreading what I believe to be relevant points to be examined.
Micky,
What can I say?
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwn.
Want me to tuck you in?
Micky, You can certainly gauge unit morale by talking with junior enlisteds and mid-level NCOs – and there’s a wealth of experience and knowledge in those combat-tested Soldiers. As I said before, the military appreciates your passion and support – something that wasn’t rendered to our veterans 30 years ago…
Eagle, the pleasure is all mine.
Brian condensed my activities and conversations with our soldiers over here to
” looking over the fence at a military base” I’m glad you can see that I do engage these guys on a regular basis. What they tell me is almost always far from what the media tries to shove at us.
I resent not joining the military when I was younger. I was to young for Nam and when I was around 17 when they did away with the draft and was one of those idiots that wanted to join a rock band and wanted to tear it all down with no clue as to what to replace it with. A full blown moonbat flower child that stayed high untill 1993.
My father died Christamas eve in my arms in Dec. 2000. Once again I hit the booze and drugs untill I saw the towers come down. I soberd up that day because as hurt as I was I knew I would not make it thru this run this time. Because I was really pissed. I live in hawaii but have traveled extensively and spent a couple years working a few blocks from the towers.
Since then I made up my mind to do what I can to see to that something like that never happens again.
Sooooo, my point is that when someone like you compliments me for my efforts it makes my day.
I’ll drop a note in Gods box thanking him for yours and your comrades sacrifices.
Well, Micky, Thanks for the offer, but I’m more than capable of tucking myself in.
Further, I went out there, signed up, volunteered, and went to war.
I have reasons.
The debate is the issue of who would make the better leader for our country.
Do you know what I have done in the emergency rooms of this country, in the shelters and prisons ? Do you know what I have faced on the streets of this countries most dangerous neigborhoods.
But I have a code of behavior on this blog. I stick to it as much as possible out of respect for the blog owner. His respect is worth it.
Good night.
Oh where to start? Hmmm. Let’s start with my “denial.” What was I denying exactly?I can’t seem to find that bit anywhere. So unless Eric has been editing comments (which he hasn’t), I denied nothing.
Now there’s the whole calling the kettle black bit. You complain that inferred you were invoking Reagan (which I categorically did not say), yet you then try to lambast me for inferring things from what you said.
As for predilections, well, you have them, I have them. It’s not about principles. The predilections part is not about what you believe in, but in how you achieve those goals. In this case, the predillection is to slash and burn rather than to work it out.
Now what was that about personal issues? Hmmm?
As for your post script, well, you are wrong. The party did not abandon you. It just didn’t move with you is all. It’s right where it was in 1984, and even in 1994. It’s what Rush et al don’t get. The vast majority of the GOP is still the same as it hase been for 25+ years. They moved further to the right, which to them made it look like the party moved to the left. It did not. So now you turn your back on the party. Fine. But don’t expect to be well received should you need to work with the party.
I’ve seen this before, and it never ends well. Look at NY. It got us Eliot Spitzer, Andrew Cuomo, Hillary Clinton, and Chuck Schumer. It lost the GOP three congressional seats, 15 in the Assembly, and is now threatening the slim majority in the State Senate. The split in NY has casued more people to stay home rather than vote. It keeps good people from seeking office because there is no unity to back them. It has killed not only voter participation, but general political participation as well. So if you really want to have what we have in NY on a national scale, continue your efforts full steam.
Brian has every right not to vote for McCain in the general election. However, I would like to put my two cents in.
He ASSUMES the Republican Party will bounce back after 4 years of liberal rule. The problem is he doesn’t know that WILL happen.
But I do know what WILL happen should one of the two liberals gain access to the White House for 4 years and a potential 8 years:
Due to the FACT that some Conservatives are “staying home” on election day, the motivated and enthusiastic Democrats (evident from recent voting activity) are going to vote in droves for ALL levels of government. They will gain seats in both the House and Senate. The Congress will be Democrat led. FACT.
With a Democrat President and a Democrat Congress, the liberal bills WILL be passed. FACT.
Higher Taxes. You bet. Higher than this country has ever seen before. And we all know what happens to the economy with higher taxes. FACT.
Liberal Supreme Court Justices. Ruth Ginsberg, Jr. times FOUR OR FIVE. Goodbye Conservative Court for at least 25 OR MORE YEARS. FACT.
Rights for the unborn. Absolutely None. Hussein voted against a bill that gave rights to a live baby after an abortion. Nice. FACT.
Ending War in Iraq. Hello terrorist playground. No justice for the fine men and women who gave their lives in Iraq. We will “lose” the war because of liberals, just like in Vietnam. We would have won in Vietnam if the liberals didn’t get their way. Let’s give them their way again because of our “principles”. FACT.
Universal Health Care. Where will the Canadians, and for that matter, my family, go to receive health care, A? FACT.
GWOT? Who knows? With no surveilance, no wire tapping, no OFFENSE. I shudder to think. But at least, we’ll have bombed an ally, Pakistan, and held hands with Iran. Hell, we even bombed a Christian country (Bosnia) with absolutely NO PROOF of mass graves. And what happened to Bosnia? Hmmm. AQ and other terrorists have taken control of it. That’s what will happen to Iraq when we cut and run. FACT.
I can’t even imagine America after the Democrats have been in control for 4 or 8 years. And they WILL should Republicans stay home or not vote for the nominee.
Countryb4party – nice wrap up.
Yea. letting the left in just so they can hit rock bottom at the expense of the whole country is not a good idea just we can say ” I told ya so ”
What we Cons need to do is get our act together NOW. And not wait for some catastrophic misery to motivate us.
A child may be able to throw his tantrum and be ignored as a method of parental application so he can see that his behavior will get him nowhere. But when he threatens to burn down the house its time smack him in the ass and lock him in his room.
Thanks, Eagle6. I know Eric thinks Hillary will be the nominee. I think it will be Hussein. Now, that’s what I call a great “wrap up” to the GWOT … electing someone who has the middle name of Hussein. Good grief.
Hussein says to his anti-war rabid followers: McCain will go to war with Iran. Hey, Hussein! We are ALREADY at war with Iran in Iraq. And what about the missile Iran recently shot off? Even our pretend ally Russia is worried about that. Hussein’s Foreign Policy Experience = Ziltch. Hussein’s Foreign Policy Solution: Hold hands, make nice with the enemy, and bomb our ally. Dangerous for America.
Countryb4party;
“Hold hands, make nice with the enemy, and bomb our ally. Dangerous for America.”
I’m certainly not one to be paranoid or hysterical. BUT !
This link was left on a previous thread here and I think it deserves to be looked at, as does Obama.
Its almost in direct relation to what Countryb4party is talking about. And might give some clarity as to why Obama is so sympathetic to our enemies.
http://faultlineusa.blogspot.com/2008/01/militant-muslim-family-of-barack.html
I think everyone needs to take another look at Barack Obama, his history, his church and his continuing connection to sharia law in Kenya:
Obama appears to have sided with opposition leader Raila Odinga, head of the same Luo tribe to which Obama’s late Muslim father belonged.
Obama’s older brother still lives there. Abongo “Roy” Obama is a Luo activist and a militant Muslim who argues that the black man must “liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture.” He urges his younger brother to embrace his African heritage.
Beyond family politics, these ties have potential foreign policy, even national security, implications.
Odinga is a Marxist who reportedly has made a pact with a hard-line Islamic group in Kenya to establish Shariah courts throughout the country. He has also vowed to ban booze and pork and impose Muslim dress codes on women — moves favored by Obama’s brother.
With al-Qaida strengthening its beachheads in Africa — from Algeria to Sudan to Somalia — the last thing the West needs is for pro-Western Kenya to fall into the hands of Islamic extremists.
Yet Obama interrupted his New Hampshire campaigning to speak by phone with Odinga, who claims to be his cousin. He did not speak with Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki.
Would Obama put African tribal or family interests ahead of U.S. interests? (continue reading at Investors Business Daily)
On Jan. 1, the world learned from major news sources that some churches and their occupants were burned in Kenya by Kenyans who didn’t like the outcome of a recent election. The media failed to report that these were MUSLIMS killing and destroying Christians and their churches.
Why do the Muslims back the more left-leaning Odinga? Like leftists in Europe and America, Odinga and his faction want to use Islam to oppose Christianity, which is seen as an impediment to the left’s agenda. [snip]
We are talking about objectivity and its dire lack in the media.
It seems pretty clear that the mainstream media have two reasons for omitting the details of the story:
1. They sympathize with Islam because it is the “enemy of the enemy,” namely, Christianity.
2. They are cowards hoping to avoid a confrontation with Islam in their home countries. (WND)
I suggest a number 3. That Barack Obama is a media darling, has direct connections to Kenya and Odinga, and the press doesn’t want American voters to be aware of this connection.
See the Department of Justice DIVERSITY TRAINING VIDEO ON ISLAM HERE.
See: AMERICANS AGAINST HATE CALLS ON DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO CUT TIES WITH MUSLIM EXTREMIST GROUP
We’ve certainly heard more about Romney’s Mormonism than Obama’s affiliations with two different religions – I’ve read different writings but will continue to assess before going further there. I think Eric is right in that he’s an empty suit who panders to the ignorant masses, but while he’s drawing young stupid people in, we have seemingly educated people not willing to play. Even though the media will continue to downplay any adverse information about him, I truly believe that if he is the nominee, some media will do the right thing and energize Republicans and Independents to prevent his election. I anticipate record turnout for both parties…
I went to Hussein’s web site and sent the following comment:
What is Obama’s relationship with Odinga, a Marxist who reportedly has made a pact with a hardline Islamic group in Kenya to establish Shariah courts throughout Kenya?
Would Obama put African tribal or family interests ahead of U.S. interests?
The questions were asked in several blogs and I highly doubt I will get a reply from the Obama camp. If I do, I’ll let you know.
Reference questions posted to blog – that would be great if you could get answers. Again, if he is the nominee, the skeletons will start coming out if he has any…of course, then the people asking the questions will be portrayed as insensitive racists… Who’s racist here? Heck, he’s half white, and you never read about that! I just don’t believe he has the wherewithal to lead this country, regardless of his affiliations, and the public may be courting him now, but I’m convinced reality will awaken the giants.
Haven’t heard from the Obama camp yet. No big surprise. I hope I didn’t sound racist. I was referring to the fact that both Obama’s brother and cousin are Muslim extremists who want sharia law imposed on people in Kenya. It’s more of a national security issue.
Countryb4party, No inclination of racism – there are questions that beg to be answered without the drama, hype, or fear mongering, but answered nonetheless. This is a cheap shot at detractors, but why would you be considered a racist for asking this question, and 100 Black people say they are voting for BHO because he’s Black, and they aren’t called out as being racist?