THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS

I did not expect the Tygrrrr Express to become all Batman, all the time, but a liberal blogger discussed the connection between Batman and George W. Bush, just as I did. The difference is that their assessment was negative, while mine was positive.

I could have been significantly more tactful with this blogger, and I have to confess that if he and I competed in a graciousness contest, he would have won.

Our debate was spirited and respectful, and I give him full credit for that. Below is my debate about the Bat and the Dub. Directly below is the column that sparked the debate. While I disagree with his conclusions, he writes well.

http://wheeties.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/bruce-wayne-and-the-terrorist-fist-bump/

To sum up, he manages to praise Batman (with some reservations) while condemning President Bush. I found this hypocritical, and let him know.

“You are obviously a liberal.

As soon as I walked out of the theatre, I immediately made the Bush/Batman connection, but for positive reasons.

You are able to accept Batman’s surveillance because you believe he is good. You are against Dubya doing it because you believe he is bad. Therefore, your bias allows you to see them differently even though what they are doing is exactly the same.

You could come to realize that perhaps the Dub is doing the right thing, but then your head might explode.”

I also included the link to my Batman article.

His response was reasonable, and I have to confess that he basically used my tactic of disarming people with great effectiveness.

“Hello blacktygrrrrrrrrr, welcome/nice to meet you. I don’t know if you will see this or not, but here is my official Clarification:

so first of all, the personal attacks were somewhat unnecessary. I realize I insulted someone you support politically, but given that I didn’t attack you, your comments about my head exploding, etc were inappropriate. I’m not deleting your comments (free speech, yada yada), but don’t do it again.

Second, the fact that you are clearly conservative did not lead me to dismiss your point of view, the way my political beliefs led you to dismiss mine. I went and read (most of) your post (sorry, it’s long!) and thought about your arguments. To avoid spending too much time on Batman, I just want to raise one objection to your argument. I agree with your statements that leaders such as bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are too pragmatic to be the real-world equivalents of the Joker. You then offer Zarqawi as a possible contender, and support the decision to kill him:

‘Talk of diplomacy can work with those that want to live. Yet with bloodthirsty madmen like Zarqawi, there is no room for dialogue. We killed him in a targeted air strike, and the world is forever better off for his death.’

Now, I presume we saw the same movie, but in the version I saw, Batman doesn’t kill the Joker. Batman shoots a good ole Bat-grappling hook after him and pulls him back to safety. Even though he is crazy. Even though he is bloodthirsty. Even though he might escape from jail, Batman leaves him for the police to find. He would never kill him, he can’t even LET him die, and he certainly wouldn’t do so in a long range missile strike that kills other people as well (even if they are only “insurgent leaders”).

This is what I mean by Batman doing Good. It’s capitalized because it is an absolute. I’m not talking about the kind of moral relativism that justifies any actions as long as they will probably save lives in the future. This is the very slope our nation is slipping down at the moment. Good is the kind of absolute morality where some things are always wrong, regardless of what they could bring us. I realize this kind of morality may only EXIST in fiction, but that does not mean that it can’t be striven for in reality (look at the whole non-violence movement).

My argument is that Batman can be trusted because he is searching for Good. But Bush is looking for the quickest solution that will make a few people that he cares about feel safe. This kind of good (lowercase) ebbs with the stock market, the weather, other people’s actions, and all other external factors; by giving Bush powers today, we have no idea what will be most convenient for him to do with them in a week/month/whenever. I know that the typical response to claims such as mine is that searching for Good is unrealistic. Impossible. That’s not how the world works. But look at where relativism has gotten us. Soaring oil and food prices. Falling currency value. Failing housing and job markets. And the lowest approval ratings for Congress and the President ever and in decades, respectively. Clearly, this way is not working so well, either.

[btw, I also think you fail to realize that the Joker is always insane, whereas most terrorist groups begin by making ‘sane’ geopolitical demands before moving to insane calls for the ‘death of america,’ and also that we bear responsibility for (literally) creating and arming many groups decades ago because it was ‘convenient’ for us, whereas Batman and Gotham only created the Joker in the indirect, literary analysis sense. But I won’t bring those up]

In all fairness, I owe you some kind of head-exploding comment. But it’s not coming. Instead, I’ll just say that the fact that we are arguing about this is a testament to the film’s power, to the troubling nature of Batman as a character, and to Batman’s ability to transcend the pages of a comic book.”

If I am going to criticize people for being every stereotype I see in them, I have to step back and acknowledge when a guy is being completely open-minded. I offered my rebuttal.

“Wheeties…I think you just started a dialogue that could benefit many people. I respect virtually everything you said, and applaud your approach.

The reason why I start by labeling somebody a liberal is because I want liberals to fight to take the word back. I am a proud conservative. Liberals call themselves progressives, and claim that conservatives turned liberal into a dirty word. Until liberals fight to take the word back, they deserve scorn for being gutless.

I respect people who say ‘I am a liberal because…a…b…c…d…’

Therefore, don’t see me calling you that as an attack. That only strengthens my using it. Take it away from me by saying, ‘Yeah, and?’

Anyway, regarding the head exploding comment, there are some people who are so locked into a viewpoint that anything that alters their world view would shatter them emotionally. Puppies and kittens die, blame Dubya. He was illegally elected, so everything he ever does in life is tainted. That view is nuts, because most people are not pure good or evil.

Nevertheless, I have never met you personally, so let me take some steps back. I shall replace my sword with a hearty handshake.

Now onto Batman.

Your analysis is partially correct. While Batman does not kill the Joker, he could let him die in some circumstances. In the previous movie, aboard the train, Batman even says to the villain, “I won’t kill you, but I don’t have to save your life either.”

Batman let’s the bad guy die.

Batman is willing to end life. He just will not murder.

Your assertions about President Bush are simply wrong, particularly this sentence:

‘But Bush is looking for the quickest solution that will make a few people that he cares about feel safe.’

This is wrong on so many levels.

1) The quickest solution would be to turn Iran and Syria into 50,000 hole golf courses. I support this solution personally. That may make me a bad person, but I know who I am. President Bush has not advocating incinerating these excuses for nations.

The man is treated as a dunderhead, but he is quite deliberative. He did not attack Afghanistan the next day after 9/11. We waited a month until a coherent plan was set up.

2) The idea that he only protects those he cares about is unfair. It pits people against each other. When Kanye West announces that Bush does not care about black people, and uses Katrina as evidence, that hurts all of society.

It is wrong to question what is in his heart. Disagree with his policies, but to say he only cares about a select few, as many on the left do, is wrong, unfair, and corrosive to society.

‘But look at where relativism has gotten us. Soaring oil and food prices. Falling currency value. Failing housing and job markets. And the lowest approval ratings for Congress and the President ever and in decades, respectively. Clearly, this way is not working so well, either.’

Soaring oil and food prices are not the fault of America. China and India are demanding more. As for the falling housing market, all speculative bubbles burst. Nobody complains when internet stocks or housing prices are rising, but when they fall it is bad. Conversely, when commodity prices were dead in the 80s and 90s people were happy, but heaven forbid they rise. Markets work both ways, and we cannot condemn them for going against our wishes.

I work in the commodity brokerage industry, and I can tell you that this obsession with turning ethanol into fuel is what hurt us most. Commodities are ‘stuff.’ Stuff is finite. We cannot use it for fuel and food.

I completely agree with you that the movie is powerful, and the debate we are having is important.

However, if you thoroughly vette my blog, you will not see cheap shots. I make fun of liberals, but I will never question their patriotism.

I began blogging to end what I call ‘Ideological Bigotry.’ It is just as painful as racial or ethnic bigotry.

Nobody should be hated merely for existing, whether it be Israel, President Bush, or a black man in the 1960s trying to sit in the front of the bus.

I am going to make this conversation my blog column either tomorrow or the day after. Your comments will be unedited, and completely in context.

That is how much I value what you had to say.

Drop by the Tygrrrr Express any time. Liberals show up and disagree with me every day. Their comments are there for all to see.

I deeply respect your response.

eric aka the Tygrrrr Express”

I would like to thank Wheeties for a spirited debate. He and I disagree, but if more liberals and conservatives had discussions like he and I did, the world would be a better place.

Again, I give him the credit for the tone.

He and I agree on one major thrust. The new Batman movie is more than just entertainment. It is culturally significant. It is important.

eric

This entry was posted on Friday, July 25th, 2008 at 12:05 pm and is filed under POLITICS. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.