While cap and trade appears to be collapsing, the health care debate is inching forward. Yet the environmental thuggery that is going on is worse than what is going on with health care. Obamacare is simply a bad prescription. Yet if it passes over my objections, it will be because enough people voted for it. I still suspect if will fail.
Yet those that want to enforce cap and trade are simply thugs.
I have repeatedly stated that I not an expert in climate. I am a finance guy. I totally concede that meteorologists and climatologists know more than me.
Yet I am not an imbecile. I am capable of rational thought. My rational thoughts tell me that when somebody labels me an imbecile for asking questions, then my questions are legitimate.
I am somebody that likes to see hard evidence. I know that 9/11 happened. I saw the planes fly into the towers. This did happen.
(Some people question this event, claiming that images can be manipulated. There are also people that claimed that the landing on the Moon was fake. These events did happen.)
The idea of the planet falling apart is something that we are told “could” happen, but it has not happened yet. Now the argument that we should not wait until it does is a sensible one, but only if the environmental apocalypse truly is coming.
Some say that if we take measures, and nothing happens, that this is fine, no harm done. This is only true if crippling the American economy is not seen as harmful. Most Americans are not wiling to destroy our economy based on speculation. Americans have and will sacrifice for a necessary cause. We did this during World War II and many other times.
All I ask is that I be given hard evidence that a climatological problem exists.
In the 1970s it was global cooling, and we prepared for an ice age. Leftists point out that now our technology is better.
Then it became global warming.
Now it is climate change.
Has anybody ever heard of climate status quo?
If it is 68 degrees today, and either 67.99999 or 68.00001 the next day, that is change.
I was never a climate change denier. I am a climate change skeptic. There is a big difference between being an atheist and an agnostic.
Ironically, many people who criticize organized religion believe in environmentalism with the zeal and ferocity of any televangelist or funny dressed fellow trying to sell me incense at the airport.
The issue is not the science. The issue is the behavior of the scientists.
It is pure thuggery to try and blackball dissenting scientists. It is borderline criminal to try and prevent alternative opinions from being published in academic journals.
So no matter how many times a pompous gasbag like Al Gore says things like, “everybody knows,” “it’s beyond dispute,” “it’s decided and settled,” no it is not.
Some will say that just because the supporters of climate change used, ironically enough, scorched Earth tactics, that does not invalidate the science.
That is a trick way of phrasing it. The science still could be true. Yet it could be false. So while the science is not automatically invalidated, it absolutely is called into question.
Even I can understand that if the people presenting the numbers “fudged” the numbers, then their entire mathematical models are suspect.
If NASA makes this mistake, a mission into space ends up in people dying. Because nothing catastrophic has come out of this climatological scenario, the thugs keep plugging away.
It is not remotely acceptable to use bullying and intimidation to try and quash discussion. There is no difference between the climate change scientists and the Tiennamen Square crackdown. Crushing dissent is crushing dissent.
So what do those supporting the theories do? They simply get personal.
I question them, so I am an idiot that cannot possibly see something that is so incredibly obvious even to the dumbest people on Earth.
Why? Because they say so.
I don’t care how many fancy degrees a person has. If you can’t break down for me why your theories are right, then the problem is your ability to explain it, not my ability to grasp it. If you can’t refute your opposition, then your opposition is just as valid.
Calling people names and trying to destroy their careers is not advancing a valid argument. When government dictatorships want to stifle dissent, they simply kill everybody.
In this case, people have their careers killed and reputations smeared.
This is not about a theory. This is about using logical reasoning instead of societal Jihad against those offering other points of view.
This issue is not settled or decided, no matter how early and often the supporting scientists try to terrorize opponents.
I am not a tinfoil hat wearing member of the Flat Earth Society.
I am a clear thinking individual that can process information.
Al Gore can scream at the top of his lungs like the village idiot in the town square, but it does not make him right.
He can claim that he is doing this because of his noble heart and not because he makes millions if the legislation is passed. How dare we question his motives.
He and the rest of the hippie baby boomers that said that we should question authority and not blindly trust government should have the guts to face us when they become the authority and we are questioning them.
He and his supporters can invoke the Holocaust, because when leftist imbeciles are losing an argument, calling something a Holocaust is trendy among those that think that some temperature issues compare to burning flesh.
Before another aspect of my life gets regulated, I am going to make d@mn sure it is for something that truly will be necessary to save the world.
That is why soldiers join our military. 9/11 did happen.
Perhaps the climatologists supporting this warming theory are the same ones that think that 9/11 was an inside job because of issues of fire melting steel. Maybe they are the same lunatics.
However, I will not advance that theory because I have no evidence to support it.
I guess that makes me unqualified to be a climatologist that gets published in an academic journal.
eric
“environmental thuggery”
Ya’ know, I really have to wonder just what sort of world conservatives would like to live on. Like this? How about this? This? I really have to wonder. But no! The people who want to stop pollution, they’re the “thugs!” What was I thinking? Amazing.
Cap and trade is hardly the answer most environmentalists are seeking. it’s an artificial-market-based system that does little to curb climate-altering pollution. But many pols and pundits and some scientists jump on the C&T bandwagon hoping that someday it will lead to something bigger and better – much like what’s happening with healthcare reform now – but I have my doubts. Healthcare reform, on the other hand, will probably grow from this. The government – the PEOPLE – just had to get their foot in the door. this is welcome news to me, and a disaster as far as conservatives are concerned. Yes, much of this reform will probably fail, but that’s the good news. As private insurance shows that it is a failed system it will doom itself to the eventuality of universal care.
But back to the issue at hand…
Whatever you think of “Global Warming” or “Anthropogenic Climate Change” or whatever, only a moron would think polluting the atmosphere on a massive scale and wierd composition unheard of in the history of the planet is a good idea. Trillions of little combustion chamber explosions, billions of domestic animal expirations, millions of furnace and cooking fires, thousands of power plant emmisions spewing into the atmosphere all day everyday can’t be a good thing. Only a moron wouldn’t agree with that. Just look at those pictures I linked. Is that the kind of world you want? For your children? your grandchildren? Conservatives aren’t much for looking ahead beyond the moment and themselves, but try to imagine the world you’re espousing should be left behind as your legacy. Is that what you want to remembered for? Do you want to be remembered as a wimp clinging to the pant legs of the real environmental thugs – Big Oil, Free Traders, King Coal? Is that what you really want? If it is, then I feel sorry for you. A generation or two from now, you’ll never admit it. You’ll be too ashamed.
JMJ
I was arguing a point with a close friend the other day.
Typically, he refutes me with a statement that I cannot
always dispute. ( I simply don’t have the facts or have reseached
it).
He likes to dispute whatever I say, and sometImes answers too quickly,
before I even finish my thought. He understands HIS MISTAKE then.
We were discussing a major fight recently (when Isn’t there a fight?)
in Israel over whether their IDF (solderis) should help in the government’s policy of evicting (illegal) outposts, the diehard residentds.
In Israel, a rabbi, who heads a yeshiva (one of 40), which has agreement with the Defense Dept ( students study a few years, and go into the military for 1.5 years), encouraged his students (when soldering), to disobey orders from their commanders, and refrain from the evictions
and several put up banners making statements.
Anyway, the Defense Minister called the rabbi to task, and in essence
told him that he was advocting anarchy and insurrection, besides
violating military rules.
This let to a response by the good rabbi, who said the bible dictates
in many situations OVER any decree by the government, any government.
Jewish soldiers do not evict othter Jews, they fight the Arab/Muslim enemies of the State.
Of course the solution is simple, have the police trained to do the job, and
keep the IDF out of it.
But, Israel makes things hard..virtually in every sphere, when there
are simple solutions.
Anyway, my friend refuted the idea of police, saying that they have
to be specially trained (thus, it is not a positive idea).
Of course I disagreed, saying that in California, the police and sheriffs
are called daily to evict squatter, illegals, people whose homes have been
forclosed, etc. The army is not brought in, except in a dire emergency,
like riots., and even then, are sometimes not armed.
I revealed that there is a bill now going through the Israeli parliament
to allow the use of police. He was finally convinced that it must might
come to fruition.
The cap and trade antics is similar…you just cannot convince those
for it, who believe we are headed for extinction, if we don’t place
restraints on US.
As I reminded my friend, anything is possible..I mean even Halley’s Comet
might take a detour and hit the Earth…or the comets that hit Jupiter
years ago, might reappear somewhere else and hit North America.
I read in interesting article in this week’s US News. It described
who will be affected by Obamacare..and how, (making certain assumptions).
As far as I can tell, many of the uninsured will be insured, like it or not.
If they do not sign up, the IRS will know..and knowing the IRS,
will begin prosecuting them as felons…after giving notice and demand
for payment. I don’t know how many years they will get, but
can envision their being in cells next to Bernia Madoff.
I mean, lets assume one doesn’t pay for 10 years..that’s 750 year
plus penalties and interest. You do the math.
People are incarcerated in the USA for Federal tax evasion of less
amounts.
Of course the costs per inmate..well, you do the math.
What is happening here is obvious,, with 95% signed up and paying,
the 5-10% now uninsured, will be financed. So why not have insurance.
It’s a win win situation for them..and a lose lose for the rest of US.
Oh BTW, Ahmad (Iran) just gave the finger to the US demands for
talks by the end of the year, or face sanctions.
Will Obama order a massive strike on their nuke facilities..using
our 3 battleship group planes and missiles in the Gulf? Or will he
appear on SNL, smiling..and turning into Bara (c)k (The Rock) Obama
when agitated?
Since Pelosi is adament about funding abortions through Federal money,
this could be the killed yet? But then again, her precious party
will be decimated in Nov, and she knows it.
Waxman, you are history my friend.
Dan, do you even read the posts?
JMJ
Aww this things acting up again
Hey Jersey.
No one wants a dirty planet . We just dont want to be bent over while cleaning it
And if you’re so damn worried about the kids futures then stop racking up trillions and trillions in debt for them to deal with.
How the hell are any of these green initiatives going to be sustained if everyone is broke ?
Micky, nothing worth anything is free. You have to give to get. We humans made the mess, now we have to clean it up. And sometimes you have bend over to clean.
As for racking up debt, you conservatives have racked up more debt than any other bunch in history. Stop throwing stones, Glass House Man.
JMJ
Awww man, this things actin up again.
Jersey. Obama holds the record on debt and deficit.
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/
As far as anything being free goes i think you missed the whole point and difference between paying 3 years up front for something that’ll come in 10 years later at a 1000 times over budget like medicare and medicade, that we cant use til 2013, and actually have no idea what will look like at that time.
Also theres a huge difference between something not being free and expecting people who havent been born yet to have to pay for something they had no say in and was the hugest stinkingest crap legislation this country ever put together. Bad enough todays young adults and adults under retirement age are paying into entitlements that they more than likely wont be able to collect come their time.
Maybe instead of thinking you can give me lessons on how the ying and the yang work in an economy you guys should start learning how to pay things off without the incredibly creative and insightful methods of taxation only.
Start getting rid of some crap we dont need or want.
Hows that for a novel idea ?
And loose the glass house analogy already everytime someone attempts to identify a problem.
By your logic no one would ever be able to critisize anyone for anything they’d done in their life at one time.
I used to do a lot of doping and dealing and stealing. Trust me, its okay these days for me to tell people they shouldnt do it without feeling bad about any moral relativism.
Whats happened in the past doesnt give Obama a pass to do it all over again on a scale never approached in history.
At least with Bushs numbers there was some hope and means to balance our budget one day without commiting generational theft going into 3 or 4 generations.
You guys are failing, big time, in no time. faster than any admin ever.
No president has ever sunk to ratings this low this quick at this or anytime in their term.
You’re loosing half your base. More people by the day are switching and identifying themselves as republicans, tea partiers and conservatives.
No one wants to pay three years into a bill that will more than likely be dismatled by the republican party in 2012
Micky, you posted a link to a projection by the Heritage Foundation. Thanks for the enlightening nonsense.
JMJ
Nice try Jersey but as yusual you lie thru omission of the truth once again.
Liar.
Anyone who goes to the link can plainly see that it displays the spending ,debt, and deficit Obama has put us thru that surpasses that of Bush without a doubt, He has doubled in 11 months what took Bush 8 years, two wars to accomplish.
The only reason I dont post it here is because it wont take and I’m not going to break it up into 20 different pieces just so everyone can see what a liar you are.
Any freaking idiot whos the slightest bit informed knows that what you said ->> “As for racking up debt, you conservatives have racked up more debt than any other bunch in history.”
is 100 % bullsht.
As of about 5 months ago Barry took that record and has added to it almost every day.
As far as the deficits that the heritage displays you seem to forget that deficits ARE PROJECTIONS”!!! They can be accurate but are still projections.
But Obama does not have much high ground. The “stimulus” bill alone will create more debt (approximately $1 trillion including interest costs), than Bush’s first three years of budget deficits combined ($948 billion). And adding the “stimulus” bill to a realistic budget baseline yields a projected 2010-2017 cumulative budget deficit of $8.4 trillion. – 2.5 times the size of President Bush’s deficits over the same 8-year time period.
Heres the link for your further “enlightement”
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/02/11/president-obama-set-to-exceed-president-bush%25E2%2580%2599s-deficits/