Before getting to health care, my prayers are with the families of the West Virginia miners that lost their lives in an explosion. I am holding off saying more until we know more. For now it is just an awful tragedy.
Hug your loved ones.
Politics is not life and death, but it does matter. With that, I turn to health care.
While the battle over the Obama health care plan was covered by many blogs around the clock, I decided early on at the expense of blog traffic that I was not C-Span. When the bill actually passed, I covered it as news. Yet the year leading up to it was not news.
Now the goal of Republicans is to repeal the bill. If it gets repealed, that will be news. I am not going to spend every day focusing on potential events.
President Obama did say one very arrogant thing that is in keeping in line with his smug attitude toward his political opponents. He claimed that they were predicting Armageddon, and that the day after the bill was passed, he looked up and the Earth was still standing and the sky still blue.
This was a fancy way of him claiming that his critics are crackpots. He refuses to treat political opponents with dignity.
What he fails to acknowledge is that since the most toxic aspects of the bill will not kick in for a long time, it is impossible to say his critics are wrong.
(They could be, so could he. I acknowledge this. He doesn’t.)
So regarding repealing the bill, I am offering musings and then leaving this topic once and for all unless actual news breaks.
Democrats are claiming that once the American people get to know the bill better, they will like it. Democrats have to say this. They cannot very well admit they passed something over majority objections. They have a right to spin.
When Democrats are asked why people are still against it (They can claim people support it until they are blue in the face. An honest discussion cannot start until it is acknowledged that overall people are against this bill.), they respond that the people have been fed a steady dose of “misinformation.” The usual culprits are listed, from Fox News to talk radio to Republican politicians.
This argument treats the voters like imbeciles. Remember, the people elected Barack Obama. were they intelligent in 2008 and idiots a year later?
(liberals would argue yes, which is why they are liberals)
This really does lead to an important question. i would even say it is a vital question.
How can President Obama, who gave soaring oratory that captured a majority of the electorate (the financial crisis helped him), be unable to persuade the public on his signature initiative?
If Republicans were spreading lies, why did he not effectively correct the record? He has thousands of staffers and cabinet members, daily press briefings, a media that by and large likes him very much, and a public that claimed they wanted change.
Why has he still failed to get the people on his side? Why did he have to ram a bill through?
Blaming Republicans does not cut it. They said why it was bad. he said why it was good. by large majorities, the people did not believe the president.
This does not mean they thought he was a bad person. They just looked at something that claimed to lower costs, reduce the deficit, and give more care to more people. ordinary people felt this did not make logical sense.
The more he bullied his opponents, the worse he did. He never fully explained how and why he was right. We were supposed to at face value accept his words as gospel truth. Even people who like the president wanted to know, to quote the late Clara Peller, where the beef was.
Mr. Obama ran a campaign heavy on platitudes and light on substance. When people demanded substance, he kept repeating platitudes. It is his job to explain his policies in a simple manner, not in grandiose elitist verbiage. His idol FDR was a master at communicating with Joe Six-pack.
Moving away from the president, the issue of repeal may come before the Supreme Court.
Chief Justice john Roberts is an intellectual and legal titan. Yet conservatives might not like how I think his court will rule, if they even agree to hear the case.
John Roberts is not a conservative activist. He is a minimalist. He likes narrow rulings specifically addressing the issue before the court and nothing more. He does not issue expansive rulings. Also, he prefers 9-0 decisions. He understands that 5-4 rulings may occur on charged issues, but he does not like them.
Also, a person has to have “standing” to address the court. Many liberals disliked the Patriot Act, especially the “library provision” in Section 215. Yet not a single person could show that they were personally injured. No cases were heard. With Obamacare, until a single individual can show that they were harmed, there is no standing.
For this reason and the hesitancy of Roberts to run an activist court, overturning the entire bill is unlikely. Where those wanting repeal have their best chance is the issue of mandates. If I refuse to buy health insurance, and am fined for it or imprisoned, I then have standing. This does not guarantee I will win, but at least it makes for a legitimate constitutional discussion that the Supreme Court can analyze.
Liberals will say that conservatives should “move on,” but that is just another example of liberals telling conservatives to shut up and agree with them and calling it bipartisanship. Liberals have been using the courts for decades to make up for losses at the legislative and executive levels. A taste of their own medicine is deserved. Let’s see how they like being tied up in court. this has the benefit of preventing the rest of their agenda from moving forward. Every minute we force them on defense to fight a bill they already passed is a day that the rest of their agenda dies. This is politics.
Liberals can claim that Republicans are the party of “no,” but the Democrats won in 2006 with zero agenda. I would prefer that Republicans form a second Contract With America in some form, but if going hard negative gets Republicans elected, I am fine with that.
Again, nothing the GOP is accused of is any different than what Democrats have done for years. Democrats got their health care bill. We as Republicans have to make sure it comes at a higher price than they could possibly fathom.
If we fail to do this, that is our fault.
The next time the pendulum swings, I hope a Republican president rams a conservative agenda down liberal throats, and then takes a victory lap afterwards. liberals will claim many things, but they will not claim the truth. It is just payback, pure and simple.
They succeeded in passing a bill. They have failed to make the case for why they were right to do so.
Let them insist otherwise. The people are against them, and the liberal lashing out shows how scared they are that they went too far and abused their power.
This concludes any health care talk until actual news happens. That will be the November 2010 elections.
eric
First, let me say that after reading this, I still have no idea what your qualm is with either of the healthcare bills.
Second, please allow me to correct the record about what you said about the Patriot Act (” Many liberals disliked the Patriot Act, especially the “library provision” in Section 215. Yet not a single person could show that they were personally injured. No cases were heard.”) Actually, cases were heard. Aside from the cases heard at lower federal levels, and there were several, and cases regarding relative legislation like the FISA laws or MCA, which were also heard at various levels, the SCOTUS took up a key provision just this year. The cases decised at the lower courts have held, the SCOTUS deciding not to give them further audience.
As for Roberts, he is an EXTREME conservative activist judge, presiding over the most activist court in generations! Ledbetter, Citizens United, Oregon, the CWA, Texaco, and on and on – these cases represented a complete departure from precedent and legislative intent. The guy is making it up as he goes along.
JMJ
“Democrats are claiming that once the American people get to know the bill better, they will like it. ”
What a typical load of crap, they dont even knows whats in it except for a few major concerns brought on by the publics inquiries
Micky’s right about one thing. Most Americans really don’t know what’s in the bills. I remember a poll before the bills passed, people were asked about the reform in general, and a small majority were against it, but when asked about specifics in the bills a majority approved of 70% of them. The poll numbers for Medicare back in the 60’s were very similar to the numbers for these new bills today. Any pol that tried to take Medicare away now, though, would be committing political suicide. Americans will come to like these bills. If anything, like SS and Medicare, peoople will like it more once it’s enhanced and more public. The biggest problem I see with the bill now is that leack of a public plan. Hopefully we’ll get that in the bot-so-far-off future.
Micky, are there any specifics in the bills you’re against? I know you mentioned the mandate. Is there anything else?
JMJ
SOAB.
I just wrote this long concise post and it didnt take.
Please Eric, it happens a lot here. See if you can do something about it.
@ Jersey
Thats the problem Jersey, theres just not enough info. We need a townhall or something where everyone can ask what it is were going to be forced to pay for.
Whats this thing offering us ? All I know so far is that pre existing conditions will not be denied and that everything will be alright.
Seeing as how medicade, medicare and the way our vets get treated sometimes I’m having a hard time swallowing this.
Will my coverage be limited due to … ?
Are they actually trying to tell me and America that no matter what were all gonna get top notch care till we croak
Well, the details are all out there for anyone to see. I’m not sure why these bills are causing all this confusion.
For simplified infor, the Christian Science Monitor did a great series on the reforms that have since been encapsulated here: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0322/Health-care-reform-bill-101-what-the-bill-means-to-you
That’s where I was getting my info from.
Here’s the info from the HHS: http://www.healthreform.gov/
The bills are huge and a pain to read through, but I think the CSMs coverage was pretty good.
From what I understand, the mandate is not going to affect very many people. If you already have insurance, or you’re one of the 16 million or so that will be added to Medicaid , then it has no effect on you. There’s no lein or jail time if you don’t pay the tax surcharge, so there’s really no teeth in the enforcement. You won’t go to jail or loose your house or something if you don’t buy health insurance. On top of that, the only people who will be required to purchase health insurance will be people that can afford it. From what I understand, you don’t have to pay a dime for insurance if your household makse up to 133% of the poverty line per person. Then there’s a progressive subsidy that phases out at something like 300% poverty, I believe, balanced against insurance rates in your state. So, theoretically, you could be making a lot of money, not have to pay for insurance, and have the government pick up the tab for you to have it, depending on where you live. So, unless you make a lot of money, your taxes won’t be affected at all and you won’t incur much cost for insurance. The vast majority of the uninsured won’t have to pay anything, and with the young and healthy in the pool, theoretically again, the added costs to cover people with preexisting conditions will be covered. We shall see…
JMJ
Here, ya might find this interesting and a little confusing at the same time.
http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=5990#more-5990
Even Sebelius knows this all so clustered, unclear and massive that there setting up a system to inform everyone as to just what the hell is in this thing
Via Politico:
It’s about giving people the tools that they need, helping them make better choices answering questions right away. There is so much I would say misinformation and confusion about what happens and when it happens. We need to be the face of competent government, the face of a help desk that can really respond to personal issues and questions and make sure we do that well and competently.
MR. ALLEN: Now how many additional people do you expect HHS to have to implement this?
SECRETARY SEBELIUS: You know I really don’t know. And we are, Mike, in the process of you know beginning to make assessments of every single step of the process. What I do know is that—
MR. ALLEN: But it’s probably hundreds?
SECRETARY SEBELIUS: Well I would think so but the focus at this point really is on first of all getting the process finally completed in the Senate.
LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,
Obamacare cannot be defended because, it cannot be implimented, it cannot be financed, it cannot be controlled, it cannot be enforced. Obamacare will die on the vine, so to speak. It matters not what the SCOTUS hears. It matters not what the SCOTUS decides. It matters not what Obama says about anything, few are listening.
There is no debate, no discussion, the item is dead. The people will not buy it. Obama cannot force the population to do his bidding, they will not listen. Whether or not there is good stuff or bad stuff in the bill means nothing. This bill has been tuned out. You cannot tune your guitar to an out of tune piano. It is that simple.
Three words explains Obamacare. “We shall see”.
“Well, the details are all out there for anyone to see. I’m not sure why these bills are causing all this confusion.’
Because its freeking 3000 pages long full of language that the average American doesnt use and are not willing to take the time to read.
It doesnt mean that Americans are stupid. Its simply a sleazy tactic by departing from the days when most bills were written in more condensed and practical manners.
Point and case ““Democrats are claiming that once the American people get to know the bill better, they will like it. ”
I dont want to “get to know it better” in the process of a possibly terminal disease.
i want know up front with a clear explanation as to what it I’m buying before I pay 4 years into it before I can access it.
This aint no peice of real estate, an invention, investment, its my life !
Thanks Jersey, but the CSM only explains how things will work and not really what you’re getting for your money.
And they even stated in a response to question #1 that yes, it is confusing with sub paragraphs etc…
Yeah Toma, but I’m just trying be as rational as I can be as to explaining just one of the many hurdles this POS has to jump to get anywhere.
Its a huge promise asking to be paid for in advance that by all logic is unsustainable in almost any American economic climate.
Other smaller countries have an easier time implementing mandated healthcare because they dont have the vast amount of healthcare needs that America does.
Most of them couldnt afford their socialized healthcare if we werent footing the bill to keep their a$$es from being blown sky high
I am not one going to carry and blab on… but one thing I log onto this to say… is that after 32 years of PRIVATE care…. PPO’s and just had my 3rd brain resection, done AWAKE– to clear me of seizures… done at Mayo Hospital, that on the OUTSIDE they look like they are trying to dance with Health Care for all—- but knowing my docs well on the inside, I know how ravenous each and everyone of them are– and one way or another, Mayo will somehow brake off.. and be PRIVATE whether Obama likes it or not… and I will pay the cash needed to, in addition already to my bill with insurance. This is all just crap. I have been thru many illnesses- and still know how to make insurance and life continue. But Obama needs classic attention and applause, for what he thinks will be HIS reason for 2nd term— as Bush had war. But it just is not gonna happen. I will fly to a foreign country first, before that happens– and I will repost this brutally honest E-mail!!! God bless you all!! Jesus has reasons for everything and will break ground on this!!
~Heather Siebens @AliveinMe http://epilepsycures.wordpress.com http://manyepilepsycures.blogspot.com http://hiswill4me.blogspot.com
Blessings all!
Toma, if you think it’s going to “die on the vine” then you have another thing coming.
And Micky, the number iof pages in a given bill are not all that imporant. Have you seen the law lately? Most bills are MOST CERTAINLY NOT “condensed and practical.” There’s a reason for that. If bills are too broad and simple, people will run amok loopholing around them.
The reason the bill is so large is that it covers a lot of different aspects of healthcare costs, payments, taxes, programs, etc. Since this is NOT “socialized” medicine (you’d really have to be ignorant to still believe otherwise now), the bill had provisions for small business and individual tax credits, new rules for insurance companies, and all sorts of other things to cover all the bases. Half of HR4872 was about education and student loans and HR3200 really only had so many sections that people really care about. As you should know from reading any bill, tons of pages are wasted on titles, tables, and legalese. But that’s how the suausage is made. This is no great departure from the past, as you all should again know.
“Most of them couldnt afford their socialized healthcare if we werent footing the bill to keep their a$$es from being blown sky high.”
Just goes to show how stupid and pathetic our priorities are. We’re not keeping anyone from getting any blown anywhere. We’re just feeding the gaping maw of the military industrial complex because people like you are paranoid and easily scared.
JMJ
Oh, and that gigantic military of ours? They all get “government healthcare.”
JMJ
Jers, my VA hospital is run by doctors. Military hospitals are run by the military. Obama and his HHS directors of the hour has nothing to do with military medical services. That is why it works. It is patient oriented.
Toma
“Oh, and that gigantic military of ours? They all get “government healthcare.”
That military consists of a much smaller part of our population.
Besides that, you cant ask a guy who volunteers to risk his life for his country to pay his own healthcare.
oh, but wait. Didnt they try that a few months ago ?
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“And Micky, the number iof pages in a given bill are not all that imporant. Have you seen the law lately? Most bills are MOST CERTAINLY NOT “condensed and practical.” There’s a reason for that. If bills are too broad and simple, people will run amok loopholing around them.”
The point was Jersey that you asked me specfically what about the bill it was I objected to besides the mandate.
In those three thousand pages you’d think there would stand a chance that there were sections that could explain exactly what is were getting at what rate, what stipulations, qualificationsetc.
But so far with all the clerical work going into this all we reall still are lead to believe is that everyone will be covered and you’ll be mandated to pay for it.
Even Sebelius by virtue of her statement is saying “we have no idea how to explain this to the people yet and were going to have hire hundreds of people creating an entirely new dept. just to explain to Americans just what the hell is going on” (paraphrasing)
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“But that’s how the suausage is made. This is no great departure from the past, as you all should again know.”
Yeah, and I’ve never seen a bigger bologna than this.
And just because its no great departure from the past doesnt make it right and just proves my point that government is getting too big and complicated to be a benefit to the people.
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” We’re not keeping anyone from getting any blown anywhere. We’re just feeding the gaping maw of the military industrial complex because people like you are paranoid and easily scared. ”
Were not protecting Japan, Germany, S. Korea ?
N. Korea is not a threat to the South and Japan ?
Iran is not a threat ti Israel ?
You guys are scared of weather you cant predict and you call us paranoid of true and proven enemies ?
LOL Dont talk to me about priorities