I have said it before, and I will say it again. I love “The Dub.”
I am an unabashed, unashamed supporter of the President.
I love the guy. I voted for him in 2000. I grieved with him On September 11th, 2001. On September 14th, I cheered when he grabbed that bullhorn and hugged that fireman and let the people who murdered my fellow New Yorkers know that they, “soon would be hearing from all of us.” On September 20th, as he and I both fought back tears during one of the greatest speeches in World history, I looked in his eyes, and saw potential greatness.
Ladies and gentlemen, he has met that potential. Forget today. Forget the next 20 months. It is about the next 20 years. In a world full of confusion, this man simply “gets it.” He gets it.
Very few people in life get it. Colonel Ralph Peters in the New York Post gets it. The Wall Street Journal gets it. Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson all get it. Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Ariel Sharon certainly got it. John Howard and Nicolas Sarkozy get it. Columnists John Podhoretz and Charles Krauthammer get it. Dick Cheney definitely gets it, more than most people ever realize. Sean Hannity gets it. Colonel David Hunt gets it.
“It” is the defining issue of human existence. It is about making the world a better place. It is about forcefully, aggressively and proactively making the world a peaceful place by rooting out evil wherever it exists. Not just proactively, but preemptively. That is the Bush Doctrine, and it should be mandatory American foreign policy forever.
Make no mistake about it. This is not a morally relative world. There is good and evil. Good does not win just because we pray to God. God helps those who help themselves. Blood sweat and tears are shed, so that good people everywhere can enjoy peace, and liberty. Without liberty, there is no life.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/08/lessons_from_history.html
President Bush’s entire remarks should be mandatory reading, but I will try to do this great man a modicum of justice by offering a moderately effective summation.
“I want to open today’s speech with a story that begins on a sunny morning, when thousands of Americans were murdered in a surprise attack — and our nation was propelled into a conflict that would take us to every corner of the globe.
The enemy who attacked us despises freedom, and harbors resentment at the slights he believes America and Western nations have inflicted on his people. He fights to establish his rule over an entire region. And over time, he turns to a strategy of suicide attacks destined to create so much carnage that the American people will tire of the violence and give up the fight.
If this story sounds familiar, it is — except for one thing. The enemy I have just described is not al Qaeda, and the attack is not 9/11, and the empire is not the radical caliphate envisioned by Osama bin Laden. Instead, what I’ve described is the war machine of Imperial Japan in the 1940s, its surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, and its attempt to impose its empire throughout East Asia.”
I have absolutely nothing to add to that. I was genuinely surprised by the intro.
“The lesson from Asia’s development is that the heart’s desire for liberty will not be denied. Once people even get a small taste of liberty, they’re not going to rest until they’re free. Today’s dynamic and hopeful Asia — a region that brings us countless benefits — would not have been possible without America’s presence and perseverance.”
Everybody wants to be free. Freedom is not American. It is human. Kunta Kinte refused to call himself Toby. Why should Arab women be beaten if they choose to take off their burkas and demand equality to their husbands? Why should children be taught that suicide vests are the way to glory? Human beings should never be forced into such pain.
“The militarists of Japan and the communists in Korea and Vietnam were driven by a merciless vision for the proper ordering of humanity. They killed Americans because we stood in the way of their attempt to force their ideology on others. Today, the names and places have changed, but the fundamental character of the struggle has not changed. Like our enemies in the past, the terrorists who wage war in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places seek to spread a political vision of their own — a harsh plan for life that crushes freedom, tolerance, and dissent. Like our enemies in the past, they kill Americans because we stand in their way of imposing this ideology across a vital region of the world. This enemy is dangerous; this enemy is determined; and this enemy will be defeated.”
There is nothing “hokey” about wearing a t-shirt of an American flag that says, “These colors don’t run.” This country was founded on noble ideals, and I will be d@mned if those ideals will be crushed in my lifetime because I did not do everything I could to support them.
“Some said Japanese culture was inherently incompatible with democracy. A lot of Americans believed that — and so did the Japanese — a lot of Japanese believed the same thing: democracy simply wouldn’t work.”
Are people saying Arabs are not human beings? That they can’t do it? Nonsense. They can, they should, and with God’s help, and America’s, one day they will. Otherwise, barbarism has won and civilization has lost. That is not an acceptable outcome. God gave us this world, and man will not destroy it.
“Whatever your position is on that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America’s withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like ‘boat people,’ ‘re-education camps,’ and ‘killing fields.'”
Being right is subjective. Doing right is imperative. To quote Bob Dole, who knows more than a little about protecting freedoms, “Everything in this world flows from doing what is right.”
“There was another price to our withdrawal from Vietnam, and we can hear it in the words of the enemy we face in today’s struggle — those who came to our soil and killed thousands of citizens on September the 11th, 2001…after the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden declared that ‘the American people had risen against their government’s war in Vietnam. And they must do the same today.'”
The entire world is watching. Will we embolden our enemies? Will we betray our friends? Or will we keep our word? Treasury bills are the safest investment worldwide because the USA has never defaulted on an economic obligation. The entire world trusts the United States Treasury. Shouldn’t our political covenants be just as, if not more, sacred?
“In Iraq, our moral obligations and our strategic interests are one. So we pursue the extremists wherever we find them and we stand with the Iraqis at this difficult hour — because the shadow of terror will never be lifted from our world and the American people will never be safe until the people of the Middle East know the freedom that our Creator meant for all.”
Amen! Somebody buy this man a soda now!
“Across the Middle East, millions of ordinary citizens are tired of war, they’re tired of dictatorship and corruption, they’re tired of despair. They want societies where they’re treated with dignity and respect, where their children have the hope for a better life. They want nations where their faiths are honored and they can worship in freedom. And that is why millions of Iraqis and Afghans turned out to the polls — millions turned out to the polls. And that’s why their leaders have stepped forward at the risk of assassination. And that’s why tens of thousands are joining the security forces of their nations. These men and women are taking great risks to build a free and peaceful Middle East — and for the sake of our own security, we must not abandon them.”
If they can lift their purple stained fingers with bullets flying around them, we can lift a finger to show our thanks. These people want to live freely! They have hope! They have a taste of what we have, and they demand the Iraqi version of the American Dream!
“The greatest weapon in the arsenal of democracy is the desire for liberty written into the human heart by our Creator. So long as we remain true to our ideals, we will defeat the extremists in Iraq and Afghanistan. We will help those countries’ peoples stand up functioning democracies in the heart of the broader Middle East. And when that hard work is done and the critics of today recede from memory, the cause of freedom will be stronger, a vital region will be brighter, and the American people will be safer.
Thank you, and God bless.”
God Bless President Bush. He will be the first man to tell you that he is far from perfect. He is a simple, plainspoken, sincere man. I used to think he was a good man. I was wrong. He is a great man.
The world will be a better place if we do our part. I don’t care if I am the last man standing next to the President. He is right, and the history books will be very kind to him. I know this, because to paraphrase the great Winston Churchhill, “I will help write it.”
I get what you are trying to do Mr. President.
I get it sir. I thank God that you get it as well.
May God Bless America, our soldiers, their missions, and freedom loving human beings worldwide.
Luv ya Dubya!
eric
A bunch of nonsense John Wayne , gung ho , flag waving(my country wrong or right)
CIA and Mossad propaganda
No, thank YOU, Eric. You have done a splendid job of getting across what I haven’t really been able to.
Over the years, I have not been the greatest Bush supporter, but never because of his foreign policy. He may have been one of the first, but he will not be the last person in power to realize exactly what you said. I think that is evident by the election, and subsequent actions of Nicolas Sarkozy. If France can get it, why is this country having such an issue?
Want to know my theory? I think we do get it, but the vast majority of us who do get it are keeping quiet about it. The loudmouth crowd (which is hardly representative of the country as a whole) are getting all of the attention and as such America is being painted as something it most certainly is not. I don’t think that this country really is going to hell in a liberal hand basket, but you would never know it based on what we hear. I think that the President has much more support than the polls show; it’s just the the rest of us are too busy with our daily lives to sit around and take polls and cheer on MoveOn.org.
It’s the same thing all over and on a variety of subjects. Even here in Wisconsin, I have battled over universal health care, not necessarily representing Wisconsin a s a whole, but representing people who have too much time on their hands and have an aptitude for getting in front of people and shouting. It’s not that we all support universal health care, it’s just that the majority of us have jobs that we have to work and we can’t just pick up a sign and run off to Madison every time somebody gets a bug up their ass. The same goes fro Bush’s policy in the Mideast. Popularity (particularly when history is concerned) stems from the greater picture, not what some new poll shows.
Someday I hope to be as eloquent with words as you are now with this post.
Eric,
Moral relativism? Y
ou just kicked millions and millions of flaming liberals in the gut.
simplistic,either you are with us or against us thinking
skindeep stuff
Patriot Act
Extension to Bush’s Wire-Tapping Plan
The fact that Dec. 7th 1941, the day that shall forever live in infamy, was the result of an attack carried out by the Japanese Imperial Empire.
9/11? Well, I don’t see any country, or organization with well-known boarders that did it. We were viciously attacked in Oklahoma City too, but it was a white ex-army guy.
I’m sorry, I think of Bush as one of the worst Presidents ever. He has torn this country apart with idiotic ideas. You ever see John Bolton (Ex UN Ambassador) try to defend Bush’s “only work for your voters” attitude? So you saying that who we elect doesn’t give a shit about the other party? That’s not right.
I don’t see myself as liberal or conservative. I hate classifying myself either of which because I know what works for me won’t work for others, so some sort of gray-area or middle ground must be found.
And christ, Bush has surrounded himself with nitwits, from the 150 graduates of Pat Robertson’s brainwashing law school, to resigned advisor after resigned advisor.
I understand Bush may have some great ideas – he really has pushed for more involvement in Africa – but after being lied to about going to Iraq, and the subsequent no-bid contracts to his old business pals, I come to really doubt his intentions anywhere.
I’m not an isolationist – those who were during WWII were dead wrong as history has shown. But I don’t think that Bush poking the proverbial Bee-hive that is the Middle-East won’t be looked at as visionary work, it’s just another example of the US meddling where it shouldn’t, then jumping ship when the popular vote dictates it so.
I mean, we are one of the main reasons the Middle East sucks in the first place – a very right winger pointed out to me – there used to be a secular gov’t in Iran until we pushed in and changed power over to the Shah. We really aren’t doing squat – especially when intelligence reports are saying that the trouble seems to be in Pakistan.
In case I kinda diluted my point, it would be:
Bush is a puppet. He knows nothing without his advisors telling him what to say and how to say it. I don’t think he fully understands the mistake it was to take the angle he did in invading Iraq.
And that I’m not for isolating the Middle East from the rest of the world, I just feel there are better ways to deal with problems there than unilateral pre-emptive Force based solely on manipulations of truth.
He should have done something more along the lines of what his Daddy had done – despite his faults, Bush Sr. really showed how you go about dealing with things in the Middle East, consult country after country and involve them as much as possible.
We are not God’s land. We are no oasis.
But we do have the power to do great things as a country, so I’ll always be optimistic.
Romeo, Romeo, why dost thou not go elsewhere, Romeo! What is wrong with simple…if its reality?
Hey Joe, no thanks for spewing. I was really hoping you were an original thinker.
Eric, I was a Bush supporter when he was first elected, but after 9/11 when I saw what he was really about, I became a Bush admirer. In the past year, though, with the illegal imigration question, I have really struggled to remain supportive. No matter what, though…I truly admire his ability to have lived through the most hateful rhetoric I’ve personally ever heard attacking everything about him, and let it roll right off of him. Above all, the man truly has class…read, character, integrity.
It is good to read your unabashed admiration, and to be reminded that Bush is the man with the vision needed for this particular time in history….even if I cannot fathom where he is coming from on illegal immigration issues.
By the way, to Romeo, S Joe, and other Bush opponents…if you guys would actually deal with the facts about Bush, two things would might be more likely to happen; you would quit spewing…and I might be inclined to take you seriously.
Have a great Friday!
Hey Joe ! Whatcha smokin ?
Since Roosevelt I dont think there has been a presidency that has been plagued with more disasters than the Bush presidency.
My God ! can you imagine what would of happened if Carter had to deal with any of todays problems, Ohhh,man.
And I guess Bill doesnt get any of the credit for letting things get to the point they were at on 911. He only had about 20 warnings bite him in the ass so he could do what ?
Launch a few lousy missles ?
Bush’s plate has been full of doo doo since almost day one. And the chunks are the the people like you who spread lies and conspiracy theories, and cant come up with anything new to say for the last 5 years.
{ See how easy it is to be mean!}
What the heck did Bush do after 9/11 that was admirable?
Saying you are either with us or against us?
Ignoring Cheney’s interview in ’94 explaining the complicated process and how invading Iraq and removing Hussein would bring about a power-struggle?
Come on. I used to defend Bush’s thinking with invading Iraq – I had tried multiple times to associate Hitler to Hussein, explaining that the negligence of the rest of the world cost millions of lives. A pre-emptive strike on Nazi Germany would have been the best possible solution.
But I started seeing differences that were too large to ignore. That Germany was a nation of Germans – all very much the same ideologically, and much more united from Nationalism. Iraq? Too many sects of Religion to unite them all – I don’t remember any instance where the Iraqi people have risen together towards a common goal. And this occupation is driving them further apart.
Also, one could never, EVER, compare the Nazi War-Machine to the Iraqi army. The Wermacht, and Panzer divisions, Afrika Korps? WAY more advanced than anything Iraq possessed (we should know, unless we didn’t keep the receipts from us funding the Iraqis during the Iran/Iraq war). Iraq may have been a thorn in the World’s side to a certain extent, but I dont think Hussein could ever get away with anything remotely resembling his “Mother of all Wars” era of the early 90s.
And come ON Carole! You made such a great post before, and then you start telling me to learn facts about Bush! So which facts should I start paying attention to? The ones that led us to war that turned out false? Or the ones about how costly (in American Lives) an occupation of Baghdad would be, made by our VP in ’94? Or maybe the info now about how the market is peaceful? Or how Democracy might not work in Iraq?
I REALLY, REALLY attempted to justify the Iraq war in the beginning – But I’m not sure if it was because I was hoping that toppling Saddam would end any controversy about us going in, that at least the Iraqi people would be free, or if it was because of the “If you’re not for the war, you don’t support the troops” stigma brought on by said Administration.
I just don’t really appreciate the Administration, and those in power, who treat us masses as idiots, and think that whatever they tell us, we should believe. There’s a reason many people are skeptical right now. I mean, what IS his vision? While campaigning in 2000, he was all about how the US shouldn’t be a Police State, spreading democracy around the world.
I have massive respect for both angles that one can make (and the millions more of course) while looking at a particular subject, but there are pieces of evidence you cannot ignore. I mean, have you looked at the list of resignees?
– White House Senior Political Adviser Karl Rove
– White House Counselor Dan Bartlett
– White House Budget Director Rob Portman
– White House Counsel Harriet Miers
– White House Political Director Sara Taylor
– White House Director of Strategic Initiatives Pete Wehner
– White House Deputy National Security Adviser J.D. Crouch
– Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty
– Acting Associate Attorney General William Mercer
– Justice Department White House liaison Monica Goodling
– Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
– Army Secretary Francis Harvey
– Joint Chief of Staffs Chairman Peter Pace
– Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
– U.N. Ambassador John Bolton
– USAID Director Randall Tobias
Oh, dont forget recent resigner, Tony Snow.
Doesn’t that bother you at least a little?
I’m sorry, I really don’t mean to BASH anyone, I just feel sometimes follow too blindly, or perhaps can have their opinions changed when presented with new evidence.
Hell, if you guys can specifically counter my arguments, be my guest, and I will respectfully take your info into account the next time I form an opinion about the subject. I mean, that’s what’s so cool about this country, where people of such different beliefs and ideologies can reach common grounds and help others view themes from different positions on the political spectrum.
And I’m sorry if my opinions aren’t ‘original’ or that I’m spewing info. Perhaps if enough people have the same opinion, then change finally can happen, or something is wrong with the particular subject to begin with.
Hey hey hey. I ain’t saying Clinton was all good times, I mean some of the worst Business Practices took place under his administration and came to light under Bush.
I mean, the whole dot.com boom and following downfall (from lack of.. well.. any products from huge investments) I would definitely blame on Clinton. I mean, his Drug Czar was an a-hole who started pushing the Mandatory Minimum Sentencing thing.
Believe me, if anything, I can’t wait for history to filter out the silver linings of both administrations ALONG with the scandalicious meetings/documents that I’m sure both are riddled with. A lot of times, a president is cursed by what he comes into, and not penalized for how he leaves the country – so with both cases, we’ll have to truly wait 10-15 years before we really start to see what they had done respectively.
I guess, if there’s something that irks me about Bush more than Clinton, was that we didn’t have to give up a lot of citizen’s rights during the Clinton Administration. Now granted, I was mighty young during those 8 years, so I’m sure I could be wrong, so feel free to present info otherwise.
Either way, we’ll probably never ever agree on most topics – but we both can agree on the fact that a system of truth and justice is the overall goal. Where decisions are met through compromise and not through dragging your opponents through the mud.
I mean, C-dawg definitely had his fair share of dirty moves – that airstrike during his impeachment trial (which was kinda ridiculous, but I guess morally significant) to divert attention, and (I THINK it was a separate strike, but I could be wrong) another airstrike in Iraq no-fly zones during Ramadan. That’s LOW.
I guess I’ll go for the hat-trick and:
I know I’m probably a thorn in the side with my slightly different (understatement hehe) view on Politics and the world – but I really appreciate the chance to voice it (aka, i don’t get sent to the spam folder), and have learned a decent amount myself about a few things I’d never taken into account before when discussing our Commander-in-Chief’s administration as a whole.
While I was saddened to see Carole lose a little respect for me due to my spewage, it helped motivate me to make clearer points, and present them, at the VERY least, in a different and more respectable manner than a lot of the liberal idiots out there that probably litter your site from time to time. So, I guess, thanks Carole :)
I just don’t want to be labeled and tossed aside – I have a lot more respect and admiration for compromise and the differing of opinion than a lot of other liberal hippie duches (spelling?) out there.
And good evening and weekend to you all.
Well it good to see you’re not totally blind.
But I need to know what rights anybody has lost under Bush ?
Joe said;
we’ll have to truly wait 10-15 years before we really start to see what they had done respectively.
Then why dont you zip it and wait.
Respectively I believe would be the key word that needs to be in play here.
Also;
“What the heck did Bush do after 9/11 that was admirable?”
I admire not being attacked again, And a president that actually had the balls to go after an enemy that none other ever had the balls to confront, and not worry about what people like you think
Also;
“Oh, dont forget recent resigner, Tony Snow.”
Cheap shot ! Bad shot! Shame on you.that you wouldnt examine the situation a little closer before you say something so shallow. It had absolutley nothing to do with Tony’s feelings for Bush.
You seem to think all those people resigned without being asked ? Duh.
But the thing with Tony puts you in a category where I’m done talking
Having the balls to go against an enemy no one wanted to is fine. But he picked and chose what were going to be the basis of this attack on said enemy. I mean, no one thought ill of him when we all went in, because for all we know, especially during the first two weeks of combat, everything was going to be quick and easy.
We were going to be welcomed as liberators.
I just don’t see how you go from that, to Democracy might not work. Especially when this type of knowledge should have been available towards decision making and, to the very least, to the public that this wasn’t going to be easy. I mean, Mission Accomplished? I was embarrassed to see what he did, only to remain in combat still.
And damnit, that was a cheap shot. I kind of cut & pasted that list from another site, and unfortunately, added the last name before I realized what I was doing. Honestly, I had to give Snow his dues, he sure knew how to speak – and I do wish him all the best towards his recovery. So, at least, I hope you read this paragraph Micky2. That was out of line of me, I guess I was typing at that point more out of passion than intelligence.
And while we haven’t been attacked, what about our biggest ally? England, or even Spain? Or the almost daily attacks IN Baghdad or Israel? There’s no way you can convince me that terror attacks have decreased since Saddam was taken.
And WHAT I THINK? Excuse me, I followed blindly behind Bush and his declaration of war. I was entirely optimistic we were going to actually help these Iraqis, that WMDs-be-damned, the end will justify the means. But it hasn’t, not even close. And you can’t possibly be naive enough to believe this war has been even remotely successful. And he should be worried what I think, because people who question his authority and judgment will be there to make sure the facts aren’t ignored.
And ok, so Tony had another reason, but the others? I can wait.
And honestly, I can respect Carole, but you seem to be one of those who hides behind a wall that filters anyone who doesn’t think like you into the ‘liberal hippie’ bin. Which is about as close-minded as you can get.
And here’s your list:
Following are examples of freedoms which President Bush and his fellow Republicans in Congress have already expunged (as reported by the Associated Press):
FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans’ papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.
Above list stolen from – http://baltimorechronicle.com/020105ChuckBaldwin.shtml
Oh and Micky2, want to know why other Presidents weren’t ‘admirable’ enough to have the balls to attack Saddam?
Well, no one explains it more than Cheney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY
It really is a great explanation of how complicated that region of the world is, and why this arrogant use of Military Power really bothered me.
I was talking about Al Queda, Duh.
Wasn’t it determined that Al Queda had minimal camps set up in Iraq? If any? I dug up this article:
Powell’s Al Qaeda-Baghdad link falls apart – http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/feb2003/iraq-f14.shtml
And also, if Bush had set the original plan – and SOLE plan – of attacking Iraq as following our successful (Taking on the Taliban in Afghanistan was Bush’s peak in military competance) campaign in Afghanistan (which would should NEVER had dumbed down in lieu of attacking Iraq), then I’d have NO problem.
Instead, that idea came out of nowhere to become the rallying cry of Bush.
And if it were originally, then he maybe wouldn’t have gone into Baghdad, and stayed on Osama’s tail, which appears to be now in Pakistan.
Joe,
It;s nice to see that at least you retracted the statement on Tony.
I’ve known about him since he wrote speech’s for Bush elder. And enjoyed him more than anyone at Fox while he was there.
I’m sure he would love more than anything to stay at Bush’s side right now. But unfortunatly his priorities might of changed lately .
He’s a class act, and when I see someone take advantage of his predicament to make a political statement, it makes the veins in my forehead bulge.
No offense, but I blog at liberal sites and I am honestly so really tired of seeing the same ” Bush screw up list” everywhere on these sites that I don’t even take the time to read the whole thing, never mind even glance at it.
If you apply the same hatred and bias to any president in history you can come up the same kind of list for that administration also.
The guy aint perfect, but when you look at the competition he had in 2000 I sure am glad it was him and non other.
He may not be your champion,
And as far as critisizing him for saying’ ” If you’re not with us you’re against us”
I like it ! I think its time we draw a nice thick black line in the sand, and eliminate any confusion as to how we feel and what our intentions are. At this point in our history we need to eliminate as much grey area as we can, it just confuses the issues and slow sthings down.
What a post. The bush family in 4 generations have had their hands in the deaths of 100 million people and you just kicked them in the gut. Where in any sense is murder justified? Even God says “thou shall not kill” and there were no fine lines in that statement. Shrub has over 1 million deaths (mostly innocent civilians) on his hands. Not to mention sending Iraq, the location of eden, back to the stone age.
What you have above is propaganda, nothing more.
Well that is a good point, but, when people were trying to perhaps question the task at hand, it would have been nice to have things explained, rather than questioning their National Pride.
And really, I can’t fault Bush for bein president after 2004. The country was at war, and I’m a full supporter of NOT changing leaders during Conflict. Also… Kerry?
While I GUESS I’m more Democrat than Republican, I was never more pissed at a Political Party than in 2004. I don’t want to say they had a Free Swing at the Presidency, but DEAR LORD – JOHN KERRY? I mean, if the roles/parties were reversed, I’d be just as pissed at the Republican party if they threw a no-chance-winner into the fray.
It’s bad enough to basically have a 2 party system, but when a party throws such crap up for competition, it makes me sad.
I mean, JOHN KERRY? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Democrats and Republicans alike can find gray areas in their dislike for that idiot.
And, I gotta get Snow his extra dues. And I had come to a revelation – He’s just GREAT at what his job was. If he were working for a Democratic President, he’d be JUST as good, and I wouldn’t have taken that little cheap shot. I gotta credit him though, he knew how to speak so fuggin well, and there have been some crazy stories he’s had to relate to the press about the White House, and he did it with TONS of class.
Joe say’s;
it would have been nice to have things explained, rather than questioning their National Pride.
I think when he said that it was more directed at the international community. I doubt that he was questioning anyones national pride or patriotism.And I don’t think he meant to say that American dissenters were lesser citizens. The speech at the time the phrase was made was directed at the international community.
Although there are quite a few American liberal nut jobs that I would consider just as dangerous as our enemies.
But hey ! It really is quite simple, just like you cant be semi pregnant, or halfway on the battle field. You either are or you are not.
You really have a debate going on here, Eric, which I have no intention of getting into. I just want to tell you that I think this is a great post, and I’m with you. The only thing I’m disappointed in is Bush’s policy (or lack of same) on our borders. In that respect, I echo Carole’s sentiments.
James,
do you even bother to think of the lives that have been saved by Bush and Son ?
Oh ! and by the way, “thou shalt not kill “doesnt mean some one else gets to kill you.
And what’s this crap about the garden of eden ?
I’m well aware of Babylon in the region of Mesopotamia,and it’s history. It lays about 50 miles south of Baghdad,and if anybody defiled it , it was Saddam who went and put his stinking name on every brick as he attempted to rebuilt it , claiming that he was some kind of messiah.
You talk about propoganda ? Get a grip !
True that Micky2, I like the analogies.
And yes, there are a few liberals that probably aren’t healthy to a functioning society, but you have to admit, there are some conservatives that probably should be tethered to keep themselves from causing harm as well.
And, to be frank, I was getting tired of Saddam and the unrest in the Middle East. I’m glad we did decide to do something, however, it seemed like most of the World didn’t know what they were getting into. I dunno, I understand your point and I have to agree, with war you really need people to be behind you.
But you have to admit, I feel a lot of Conservatives/Republicans took the quote the wrong way and a lot of people felt a lot of unnecessary pressure.
I dunno, we probably aren’t going to get anywhere with this because, deep down, we both agree a lot of what we’re talking about:
1) We do not want International/Worldwide threats to our way of life (and even other 1st world countries) and will, by almost any means possible, eradicate the threat.
2) I know you do (I assumed by your greater Life Experience than mine) have as much respect or even MORE (I have a HUGE amount of respect, I give you the advantage because you’ve lived through more conflicts than I have) for our armed forces – and realize that War is Hell, it is never good, and it is a HUGE strain on our Service Men and Women. To handcuff them and their mission objectives only hurts the civilized Free World.
3) We both agree with the Freedom of Press. I mean, I have to admit, I didn’t think you were as old as you were, especially after you said you liked RATM :), because I don’t know many at that age who are so well versed with Web crawling and even managing a Blog. Now, I don’t mean to be an asshole about it, you could be a Techie Guru (which would make me feel awfully silly), but most of the older folks I know, are deathly afraid of their Computer and the Internet. So back to the main point, I feel we both realize how important it is to be able to communicate freely, express ideas, and report news as it happens.
4) It really is my younger generation that has somewhat challenged this tradition, but I really dont think it is fair to the Commander-in-Chief at the time, and everyone involved in the process, to change leaders in time of War.
5) Judging by the fact that you’ve said once or twice you weren’t going to go on debating with me because of overused ideas, or that cheap shot I took at Tony Snow (ever since I hit submit, I kinda felt it was the wrong thing to say, and to everyone, ESPECIALLY Tony, if he comes here: I’m very sorry using him for my own gain), you enjoy the concept of debate. You like the challenge of taking information and proving it wrong, or explaining what you had meant originally, and I admire that. I love sites like these that are almost completely opposite to my line of thinking because it helps me better form an idea of how individuals think and their needs in comparison to mine or others.
6) We both understand that history is important in anything. Even now, we are at a Historically important time where we get to see everything play itself out – through the rest of the Bush Administration into whoever is our next President. But, it is human nature to predict the future, to think one knows how everything will play out, but no one does, really. Hindsight is only gained after the fact.
7) We both love the US of A. This country is so young, yet it has so much history already – and while some of it horrendous at best, there are many, MANY great moments where racial/religious/political lines are crossed and people realize, that they are American Citizens first.
8) We despise America being embarrassed. I was rather young for the whole Somali conflict – but the more I learned about it, the more disgusted I became at the sensationalizing and absolute ignorance of the men in power (fucking Clinton). It’s like they thought that no one was going to die within the confines of Moghadishu. Holy hell, that place is hell, and images of a couple American bodies dragged through the streets (I do NOT advocate the action) actually caused the Greatest Country in the World to run away with its tail between its legs – and no one felt the pain more than those Rangers who fought so hard, killed so many, and went through so much to not even get the chance to finish their job.
9) Along the lines of Freedom of Press, we both love our inherent freedoms granted by (I love how Obama puts it) an almost Divine Declaration, created by our founding fathers, all of whom had their differences but were able to create one of the greatest texts granting the greatest amount of Freedoms to a people.
10) Communism works for robots. had to throw that in there, have yet to find someone who thinks otherwise :P
So, I hope I didn’t assume too much. I tried to keep as much of what I said AWAY from the Bush Administration (and I figured I’d throw in some Clinton references since we really havent mentioned him yet), and really tried to keep the subject matter going towards what we all want as Americans.
I know there’s more, but from I’ve discerned from the passed day or two is that we all want the best for our country, even if we argue as who will do what process to get us there.
Well – I’d just like to say thanks to Carole and Micky2 for helping me round out my arguments and ideas into something a little less aggressive and more thought-provoking. Take care all you Righties, we need you all!
Joe,
I am no techie guru. I still type with both index fingers. And I only learned how to cut and paste a couple months ago.
Just to let you know, my music collection spans everything from Marilyn Manson and Dead Kennedys to Al Jarreu and Mozart..
And if you feel better, I feel better.
You’re welcome to drop by anytime.
I would love to swap links. I have already added you to my blog roll.
That would be ‘douches’. ;->
Well, J….I thought you were bein’ sarcastic when you complimented my post the other day…and since you weren’t…[blush] garsh! Thanks!
And sorry to jump your case…but as someone else said in the sea of replies since yesterday, I am tired of the same ole’ same ole’ garbage when it comes to Bush. When I skimmed your earlier, it seemed you were doing the same….and I was disappointed. However, after having skimmed what has followed, my faith is restored. Maybe if I have the time, I’ll really read and jump in. In the meantime…looks like you and the Mickster are doing fine with out me. ;->
Eric, I agree with your sentiments about President Bush. I also agree with Gayle that he has been a miserable failure in protecting our borders.
aww Carole, you’re making me blush.
And yeah, after reading some of my previous posting, I realized it was mostly emotion speaking than intelligence (I swear I got some in here… somewhere). But hey, thanks for letting me evolve my opinion and argument into something a little more bearable to read – and not something you’ve all seen millions of times before.
My tendency is to play Devil’s Advocate and question most of what is said, regardless. Hell, I take time to support Bush when I can because, I mean, he can’t possibly be AS BAD as some say – plus it shows how undesirable a position President can be.
But hey, it’s everyone’s (even mine tee hee) duty to point out mistakes and flaws in arguments, or else we all kinda never learn. I know I still am at the stage of learning about the REAL real world, and my stubborn-ness can get in the way from time to time.
While this comment really offers nothing towards the debate, just another post appreciative that I haven’t been sent to the spam bin yet.
And thanks for the spelling correction Carole :)
Oh, and thanks Tygrrrr for offering a great place for communication.
#1: There is no God. Sorry to break it to ya’.
#2: If you really believe that a bunch of mad, Muslim hashassins, gallloping on their Arabian steeds, uluating while waving their scimitars in the air are a genuine threat to America, you are a paranoid dellusional.
#3: George Bush is a failure, everything he has done has failed, he is extremely unpopular even among about a third of people who voted for him, history will remember him as a failure, he’s an incompetent surrounded by incompetents like the 150 goofballs he brought in from American University (from a class in which 40% failed the bar!), poverty is up, crime is up, joblessness is up, the debt and deficits are up, corruption is up, the wars are lost for all intents and puposes, etc. Get used to it. Someday, when your grandkids ask you who you voted for, you’ll have to lie for the sake of their respect.
JMJ
*** correction *** they had a class (Goodling’s, by the way) in which 40% failed the bar on their first attempt. I should have been more specific.
JMJ
Jersey McJones……..you said…Quote ” There is no God, sorry to have to break it to ya” un-quote,….Well….for people like you, that is why there is a heaven and a hell….enjoy your eternity pal….
William, you can have Heavan and Hell. I have no part of that. I care about real life, not the hereafter. Perhaps your life is so miserable that you must hope for another one. Mine’s pretty good. I’m happy.
JMJ
You have a constitutional right to express your love for Gee Dubya, but I am guessing that there are only a few of you left who feel that way. You could possibly be enabling him at this point. He clearly does NOT get it, and here’s why I think that:
1) He made no attempt to reach out to the 49% of the population he didn’t convince to work together. A President who “gets” it would have done more to find common ground. Ideologies are different, but there seems to be such an emphasis on polarization…Once again, Bush follows the public thought instead of leading it…..Shrub’s main flaw here is that he, I think, viewed compromise as a bad thing but then went onto demonstrate how being out of touch can be so much worse. The reality is that it takes a stronger person to get a roomful of government officials to work towards a solution. Instead, he shrugs his shoulders, trying for the life of him to get a solid sound bite out without mangling it, and sits back to demonstrate his lack of leadership skills.
2) He is under the impression that he’s made the right decision EVERY time. Remarkably, he looks back at every choice he’s ever made and has no revisions. Not only him, mind you, but his administration hasn’t made any faulty decisions. Which leads us to two conclusions – there will either be a whole lot of people eligible for being crucified next Easter or Bush and his administration have been tokin’ on some major doobage.Could be the same stuff he smoked while being stationed in that Alabama Military base during ‘Nam.
3) Harriet Myers. Case & point. Why not appoint his driving instructor from high school? Oh wait, he had his drivers license in Texas reissued to wipe his troubled past off the books when he was governor of TX. That’s right, silly me.
4) His decision to go to war. Every single aspect of this was half-baked, including the reasons to go to war…which subsequently, a reason has yet to be identified. Knocking out Saddam was a good thing, but the cost of the war is going way over any good playing political whack-a-mole with leaders in the Middle East. Maybe he was banking at the general effect of strengthening the economy and building some unity with fighting a common enemy….Oh wait, that would require some leadership skills and ability to take time to discern who the enemies are and the best way to address them. Granted, terrorists are without a country and not a unified, easily identified targer. However, Gitmo seems to be fertile ground for recruiting more people to hate the U.S. By not even contemplating keeping the Geneva Convention, Bush has helped lower our standards on how we treat people…including our own. The enemy combatant was just another end run around rules already in place. Let’s see….striking out with England was a spendidly effective move to allow any type of unity among other countries to allow terrorists to essentially play “split the parent” so they can continue their hellraising. Hmmmm….taking away our rights as citizens…sneaking around…collecting secret files…..violating laws put in place in the 1970s BECAUSE rights were found to be violated. He is a dangerous man…especially because he doesn’t get it.
-sj
p.s. Don’t get me wrong. The Dems seem to be comfortable with the “Hey, look what he’s doing wrong” as a political platform. That tells me NOTHING on how they would handle it. An interesting note, however, is when a liberal changes positions – it’s waffling. If a conservative changes his position, he’s reconsidered the facts.
p.p.s There doesn’t appear to be any one strong candidate from any party who will unify us, it seems. Anyone who shows any moderacy in thought will get picked apart by both sides. The only people who can run in the first place are billionaires which is depressing…or worse still, famous people. Why does it have to be choose the lesser of two evils?!?!!?
I love your last point, stjarna. That’s why senators can’t win elections anymore – the senatorial record of compromise and careful legislation is too complicated for the idiotic electorate.
JMJ