The Daily Kos website has been described by many as a hate site. I have decided to start posting there to see if this is the case.
I can say that there are people on that site who are normal human beings. They disagreed with me, but returned my civility with an equal volley of courtesy.
Many felt I was linking Obama to CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations), and terrorism. This is not the case, and I made it clear that the only reason I mentioned Obama and CAIR in the same blog entry was because they were discussed by two different people at the same event. Obama was in the news, but in my opinion has nothing to do with CAIR.
Yet the stereotype of the site, overall, is truthful. Most of the commenters were not reasonable. It is not that they are liberal. I know plenty of normal liberals. Heck, I am dating one. Being liberal does not make one hateful. Yet when people of like angry minds whip each other into a frenzy, it is no surprise that the result is a rage that devastates rational thought with a ferocity of an Atlanta tornado.
I recently wrote that I don’t care for CAIR. Most people would applaud a guy who has a problem with terrorists posing as civilized human beings (I am referring to CAIR, not the Daily Kossacks). Yet many on the Daily Kos site apparently find Islamofacist supporters less threatening than republicans. My posting on a left wing site was a very threat to the foundation of our democracy.
So once again, using the initials LL for liberal lunatics and RR for myself, a reasonable republican, I offer you evidence that many of the Daily Kossacks are as barbaric as advertised. I would wash their mouths out with soap, but I am not sure some of these descendants of hippies would own such a product or know what to do with it.
RR: I believe that the (Arab-Israeli) conflict is 100% the fault of the Arabs and 0% the fault of the Jews. There is no cycle of violence, just Israeli self defense against Arab terror. Unless Israelis are blowing up innocent Arab civilians, (which I would deplore) I will remain feeling this way.
LL: ummm… there are Arab Jews…you’re apparently racist and ignorant. how appropriate! quick lesson: one is a faith, the other is an ethnicity
RR: There are Israeli Arabs. There are not Arab Jews. Thank you for contributing to my blog.
LL: Are you ignorant or just stupid? Of course there are Arab Jews. There were pretty good sized populations of Egyptian Jews, Iraqi Jews, Yemenite Jews, etc. Most of them are living in Israel now, but they were definitely part of Arab culture before discrimination caused them to leave.
Neither the Jews or the Arabs ever considered the Jews living in Arab countries as anything other than Jews. The fellow could not grasp this. Then others brought up the Palestinians.
RR: There is no Palestinian history. Palestinians are a fictional invented people. Jordan murdered 1 million of them. Yassir Arafat was an Egyptian. There is no such thing as a Palestinian. They are simply “defective Arabs.” They got kicked out of every Arab country they were in because their leaders tried to overthrow those governments. No, the children are not to blame. Yet those same children would not be suffering if 22 Arab governments did not stop exploiting them to take the focus off their own failed theocracies. Their homeland is Jordan. Jordan will not let them in. This has nothing to do with Israel.
LL:If you’d like to spew Likud propaganda…please take your silly rantings to The Free Republic or some other idiotic website.
LL: We would support Likud because of any of these reasons:
- We want to give Arab peoples as much reasonable reason to hate us as possible
- We are all for genocide agaist Palestinians
- We care nothing for Arab and Working Class Citizens inside of Israel.
- We believe Israel should dictate US foreign Policy
- We want to silence all Jews and anyone else who disagrees with the above
RR: Your prose is beautiful, and I suspect your poetry is even more sophisticated.
LL: Go f*ck yourself. I mean that in the nicest way possible.
RR: In your case it would be cheaper. Thank you for contributing to my blog. I look forward to showing my audience what liberal discourse is.
The fellow asked who my audience was, and I pointed out that apparently he was.
RR: I am using you as a foil to entertain people. It is working. This concludes our dialogue. I will allow you to have the last word, most likely an immature insult, since you might become suicidal if I do not allow you this privilege.
LL: Have I neglected to tell you to go f*ck yourself yet. You aren’t doing sh*t for your cause and are only embarrassing yourself. But feel free to continue.
More vitriol followed.
LL: You should consider yourself lucky…to not be banned yet, so shut the f*ck up. You’re too cute by half, but no one is buying it.
RR: I am lucky because I have great friends, a decent family, a good career, an insatiable girlfriend, and a full head of hair. Oh, and I can discuss things without cussing.
RR: I have been told this is a hate site. I want to be proven wrong. I want to be shown that if I arrive in a liberal den as a staunch conservative advocating conservative ideas, but treat the people here with courtesy, that I will be treated with the same courtesy. Your question was fair, and hope my answer was.
LL: This isn’t a debate club this site’s stated purpose is to work together to elect Dems. you want debate? that’s admirable – but you are in the wrong place for it. coming here to introduce the oymoronic “conservative ideas” for discussion would be a disruptive intrusion into what we’re up to, here, and would make you a troll. here, you will be, rightly, politely instructed to f*ck off. was that clear and straightforward enough for you?
LL: I am surprised that enough people aren’t troll-rating this freak’s comments, and allowing for such right-wing propaganda on a liberal site…is it ok because its anti-Muslim?
RR: Anti-CAIR, not anti-Muslim.You ignored my many positive comments about Muslims and cherry picked and twisted. Right wing propaganda means you disagree with me.
So just to recap, objecting to a Muslim terrorist organization means I am a hate spewing anti-Muslim bigot who is part of the Jewish Likud Neoconservative conspiracy to hurt the poor suffering Palestinian homicide bombers.
Folks, the Daily Kossacks do CAIR. After all, how can an organization that wants to kill Jews be bad? I mean on this site, the only form of life lower than Jews seems to be republicans.
When CAIR bombs and murders people that are affiliated with the Daily Kos, I will most likely not be there to speak up.
Again, not every Daily Kossack is bad, in the same way there are good Palestinians.
Unfortunately, in both cases, there are not enough of them to make up for their rotten elements.
eric
You are to be commended Eric. I gave up trying to communicate with them years ago. The same for the LLs over at Arianna Huffington’s website. For a ‘peace loving’ group, they sure manage to display an inordinate amount of anger and hate.
“This isn’t a debate club this site’s stated purpose is to work together to elect Dems. ”
Hows that working for them lately ?
Some of those “RR” remarks are pretty unreasonable.
“RR: I believe that the (Arab-Israeli) conflict is 100% the fault of the Arabs and 0% the fault of the Jews.”
That’s just silly. A better way to put it would be that the Arab/Israeli conflict is part the fault of the failure of Palestinian leadership (and Arab leadership in general), part the fault of Zionism, part the fault of the West, and mostly the fault of the Nazis! Don’t forget them! Without the Holocaust, there’d be no Israel today. And without anti-semitism in the West – namely American and the British Commonwealth nations – there still would have been no Israel, with or without the Holocaust.
“RR: There are Israeli Arabs. There are not Arab Jews.”
Of course there are “Arab Jews!” Just as Ashkenazi Jews are European Jews, and Sephardic Jews are Arab/Mediterranean Jews, many of the diaspora mixed with Arab, Persian, and other cultures and races. The lineage of Jews, as you know, is such that the races of worldwide Jews correspond with their diaspora locations. But in the end, all Jews trace some lineage to Semitic peoples – the ancestors of all Arab and Jewish people.
“RR: There is no Palestinian history.”
If this is “reasonable” then I’m the Dalai Lama. The nationalistic concept of Palestinian Arabs is a relatively recent historical phenomenon, but the definition of Palestine dates back well over a thousand years. The racial/religious/national nexus was more a consequence of the creation of the Israeli state than anything else, but that in no way negates the attachment of the Palestinians to their native land. Nobody likes being displaced. Especially if it’s not their fault. On the other hand, had the Palestinians played nice from the beginning, an accomodation for all sides could well have been achieved. Whether it can be any time in the near future seems unlikely.
So far, Zionism hasn’t worked out all that well for anyone – not the Jews nor the Palestinians. Israel is endlessly besieged. The animus just grows and grows on all sides as with the entrenchment and intransigence of positions. This is an issue that I’m afraid may never have a good resolution. I know this – if I were Jewish, I wouldn’t live in Israel!
JMJ
I find the same thing when I visit liberal sites…. scream, yell, hate then banished…..
peace and love… peace and love……
I recently joined Grizzly Groundswell and via the OMPL your blog was added to my roll, can I get one on yours?
JMJ;
“Some of those “RR” remarks are pretty unreasonable.”
Gosh , you would think… no I take that back.
Its no surprise that Jersey Mcjones would go off on a diatribe about what is and is not a Jew and the supposed lack of reason in RRs comments instead of addressing the comments of LL.
If there is a problem to be addressed in this post its not the context of ones beliefs, But instead the way these a$$holes treat people.
Such a huge contradiction when one of the main arteries of liberalism is the supposed concern for the way people of all races, creeds ,and colors and backgrounds are treated.
But that concern suddenly disappears when anyone is in disagreement with them.
We can all get along, if we all get along, wink, wink.
Micky, there’s plenty of nastiness to go around, be it on “liberal” or “conservative” blogs – let alone Fox “News”! LOL! The point I was making is that the “reasonable” in “RR” seemed a little misplaced.
JMJ
How imaginative. You bring up FOX news, which the last I can remeber didnt tell someone to go f**k themselves because they didnt like what they heard.
The point I was making was where your head is at.
And the hypocrisy of the left.
If you dont want peace I’ll throw things at you, call you dirty names and bomb your facilities.
get it ?
Actually, Micky, Fox News is the most obnoxious media outlet out there!
Here’s a little sample…
http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&cdn=entertainment&tm=6&gps=191_129_1020_601&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=9&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.moveon.org/fox/
The right and the left are have one thing in common – people. People can be polite, respectful, sympathetic, and reasonable, or they can be impolite, disrespectful, apathetic and unreasonable. Such is life.
JMJ
BS Jersey.You guys contradict your priciplles and messages. thats the point of all this, as per Erics post. Dont try to to evade to the media or FOX news.
Such is life ?
What. do live in an intellectual vacume ?
Certain people with certain beliefs and characteristics will be bigger potty mouth a$$holes than others.
And its definatley more on the left, always has been.
You guys are the ones out in the street screaming and throwing things. Code pink, PETA, bombing recruitment centers , making spectacles of yourselves physically and verbaly all over the planet.
Try to find a blog on the right that is as nasty and known for it as the KOS.
And I’m not talking about some joe shmoes blog.
Why is Huffington and Kos getting so much attention.
Instead of denying it, you should be stepping up to the plate and asking those on your end to get grip and realize what idiots they look like for preaching peace and being violent and threatening at the same time.
Micky, tolerance of intolerance is an oxymoron. Don’t expect me or anyone else to be tolerant of intolerance. Life is not black and white, right and wrong, left and right, one way or the other. There are shades of gray of all things human. You, and conservatism, do not corner the market on anything. Get over yourself.
JMJ
JMJ what you miss is that Eric’s comments were polite and reasonable, even if you (mistakenly in my opinion) believe him to be correct. By reasonable he is talking about the form of the discussion.
What never ceases to amaze me is how supportive the left is of the Arab nations in the Middle East. These have some of the worst records on civil rights, yet they defend then while they pillory Israel and the United States which have among the best records on civil rights. Most Israeli Arabs have more rights in Israel then they would in any of the other Arab countries and far more than a Jew gets in those countries. If you want a true accounting of lives of Jews in Arab Countries try reading the book From Time In Memoriam. It may be 30 years old, but it gives an accurate history of the formation of Israel and the status of the region prior to that. Interestingly when the author began the book she intended it to be supportive of the Arabs plight,
As far as most obnoxious and media in my opinion that has to go to Keith Olberman. My opinion of him dates back to is idiotic opinions on sports long before I knew his political stripes.
Parrothead (?), (Is that like Dittohead?)
RR was always polite, little cute perhaps, but polite. Not always reasonable. By “reasonable” in my critique, and I think you got this, I meant “something that can be reasoned,” and also something proposed in a way that is not per se all or nothing, absolute. He was “reasonable” as a matter of conversational etiquette. So by at least 2 out of 3 ways these RR remarks were not reasonable. Hey, look, I can be unreasonable too. No one is perfect. But it’s not hypocritical to critique other people’s foilbles, as long as you recognize your own. That’s why Eliot Spitzer was such a disappointment to me. I digress… (God!!! WHY!!!???”)
If you think the “left” is sympathetic to the “Arab nations in the Middle East” then you don’t know your Left from your Right. The Left detests the Middle Eastern governments and authorities. I know I do. But that’s wholly apart from my feelings about Arab people.
I read a great review of that book recently, by happy circumstance. And yes, what you say about the intent and outcome I read was just re-affirmed, so to speak.
Look, we can’t just metamorphasize people into our own or some other image of our choosing. For example, I’m an American, right? I couldn’t imagine being Nigerian or a Mongolian or an Uzbek. I can’t just go around forcing people to act like me and do business with me and except my religion or my contract law. We are not Arabs. We don’t belong in Arabia. We are more like Israelis. And in the end, the Israelis have got everything right and everything going for them, except where they happen to be.
As for Kieth Olberman, remember your chickens and eggs – Olberman is a marketing device aimed straight back at the Fox “News” bunch who shamelessly self-promote and abuse competitors on air, and had for many years before Olberman came along.
JMJ
So let me get this straight JMJ. For proof that Fox news is obnoxious you point to a Moveon.org action alert? That failed. Hmmm, think that group is biased? The unbiased news watch organizations find Fox news to be the least biased news on the airwaves, by quite a bit I might add. The reality is that Fox always has all sides of a topic represented. Every other MSM news outlet only preaches one side. The liberal one. This has been empirically proved by media watch groups and other studies. Now I am not talking about pundits such as O’reilly and Hannity, but the actual news programs such as Brit Hume:
get over myself ?
Once agin you like most libs will try to make this what it is not about.
It is not about me, so I couldnt take your remark personally if I tried.
Its about all the stupid things that have come out of the lefts mouths. The last few weeks alone is a perfect example. Who has been at the top off all the headlines in the last few weeks for saying stupid over the top things ? Reverend Wright, Bill Clinton being told to sit down and shut up already, today he compared Obama to McCarthy.
Hillary crying, twice. Huffington post leaving inflammatory remarks up just a little longer than it takes to bring them down.
And whats even worse is that the left wing media cant even hide these things, because they are so prevalent they have no choice as much as it pains them to report it.
No one said anyone cornerd the market on anything, or even implied it.
But there is no doubt that the left is famous for its over the top verbal, emotional and theory based arguements and presentations.
The public displays of civil disobedience and protest coming from the left should make that clear even to a baboon.
When is the last time youy saw a conservative or republican running through the halls of congress wearing pink and screaming like an idiot, and shoving fake blood in the face of the secretary of state ?
When was the last time a right audeience booed and jeered someone off the stage like they do at Colunbia ?
When is the last time we blew up the facilities of an organization we didnt agree with ?
The left is by no doubt the over emotional over expressive ranting and raving juvenile factor in our political landscape hands down.
For clarification to the uninitiated. Parrot Heads are far more like Dead Heads than Ditto Heads. It has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. We are fans of Jimmy Buffett. One thing Bill Clinton and I agree on is our appreciation of this great entertainer. I know he happens to be a liberal democrat, however for the most part he keeps his politics separate from his entertainment which is fine with me.
Reasonable people can have positions which are absolute on some issues. I would think mostly they do. I just don’t think that was the point Eric was making. I would also say based on my reading of your comments on this blog I would consider you reasonable even though I disagree on many of your positions.
I agree with you regarding my feeling for the Arab Governments and the Arab people however I have not seen evidence that much of the left feels the same. This is largely based on their condemnations of Israel but silence on Syria, Iran, Lybia, etc. except to condemn any opposition. For example why was it a good thing to liberate Kosovo but not Iraq. Regardless of any discussion of WMD it cannot be denied the Saddam had a repressive regime. If we were right to go into Kosovo we were right to go into Iraq on that justification alone. Personally I think there were many reasons to go into Iraq, although I confess I am nto convinced it was the correct first target.
Micky,
“Who has been at the top off all the headlines in the last few weeks for saying stupid over the top things? Reverend Wright, Bill Clinton being told to sit down and shut up already, today he compared Obama to McCarthy. Hillary crying, twice. Huffington post leaving inflammatory remarks up just a little longer than it takes to bring them down.”
Yes. I know. There’s a lot of stupid politics flying around these days.
“But there is no doubt that the left is famous for its over the top verbal, emotional and theory based arguements and presentations”
And so is the Right.
.
“The public displays of civil disobedience and protest coming from the left should make that clear even to a baboon.”
That people care enough to take public action is not a derogatory on them, but rather on you.
“When is the last time youy saw a conservative or republican running through the halls of congress wearing pink and screaming like an idiot, and shoving fake blood in the face of the secretary of state?”
Is that any different than the anti-abortion folks doing the same sorts of things to other people? What bothers you more, the pink or the screaming?
“When was the last time a right audeience booed and jeered someone off the stage like they do at Colunbia ?”
There aren’t that many right audiences these days.
“When is the last time we blew up the facilities of an organization we didnt agree with?”
Hello? I thought we were at “war.”
The right is no better than the left. Get that straight, and you’ll soon become a real patriot.
Dear Parrothead,
Please forgive me. You are a Buffett fan. That’s right. I should have remembered that. That’s cool with me.
Jimmy Buffett actually often writes in a third-person-libertarian style that I admired as a music writer myself. I like him too.
“I just don’t think that was the point Eric was making.”
I was not trying to reflect his point, I was simply criticizing.
“I would also say based on my reading of your comments on this blog I would consider you reasonable even though I disagree on many of your positions.”
You too.
“I agree with you regarding my feeling for the Arab Governments and the Arab people however I have not seen evidence that much of the left feels the same. This is largely based on their condemnations of Israel but silence on Syria, Iran, Lybia, etc. except to condemn any opposition.”
Look man, I’ve been a C-Span junkie for decades, believe me, the “left,” whatever that is, despises the authoritarian, despotic, militaristic, aristocratic, theocratic regimes of the Middle East. But if you’re going to be a Realist, from whatever assuasion, you have to face the reality that the Arab world is not prime real estate. It was once their world. There’s no getting around that. Get it?
“For example why was it a good thing to liberate Kosovo but not Iraq.”
Because Kosovo involved a Muslim minority being ethnically cleansed from their homeland by Serbians clinging to the imaginary land of Yugoslavia. After Tito, Yugoslavia was doomed, as is Iraq after it’s authoritarian history. Iraq is barely a “nation.” Kosovo is like Albania – not optimal, but least semi-functional.
“If we were right to go into Kosovo we were right to go into Iraq on that justification alone.”
Nonsense. Kosovo is a tiny country. Iraq is huge. That’s just nuts.
“Personally I think there were many reasons to go into Iraq, although I confess I am nto convinced it was the correct first target.”
We should have just bribed a few generals. This war was stupid from the get-go. I’m afraid that I truly believe that this war was impurely born of greed and nothing else. Nothing.
JMJ
JMJ;
“That people care enough to take public action is not a derogatory on them, but rather on you.”
Its deragatory when its filled with hate speech, lies , screaming and yelling and public disobedience. And that is what the left is famous for.
Just like our enemies, you minimize it and justify it by calling it public action.
These moonbats radicals are all over the left and getting arrested for it also.
real patriot ?
Real patriots allow freedom of speech and do not disrupt those by yelling them down or rush them off of stages and out from behind podiums.
real patriots do not run into the halls of congress and put bloody hands in the faces of people who are a having a civil meeting. And dress up like clowns and scream like they are being murdered. real patriots do not blow up and hassle recruiters and the places they work at. Real patriots do not scream ” Goddamm America” and accuse it of spreading AIDS among the black population. Real patriots do not say that 911 was an inside job. Real patriots do not accuse other people and their governments leaders of things they cannot prove.
We have the right to assemble “PEACEFULLY”
Not act like all hell is breaking loose when we dont get our way.
JMJ;
“Iraq is barely a “nation.’
But the left is always crying about how great it was before we invaded ?
And now, with all the progress its ” barely” a nation /
Whew ! Talk about wanting it both ways?
JMJ;
“Nonsense. Kosovo is a tiny country. Iraq is huge. That’s just nuts”
What difference does size make ?.
JMJ;”The right is no better than the left. Get that straight, and you’ll soon become a real patriot.’
Thats why all you do is beat up on the right over at your blog ?
Gimme a break. You look less than intelligent when you assume Im dumb enough to swallow that
I beat up on the right because they need it. They need to take the same cold objective formulas and apply them to real life scenarios. They need to “get real,” with all credit to the San Fernando Valley.
JMJ
O.K.
This is what I’m talking about.
Jersey McJones will dictate to us what is “REAL’ . “They need to get real” as he says.
So, let me get this right..
You said;
“You, and conservatism, do not corner the market on anything. Get over yourself.
But you have cornerd the market on reality ?
JMJ;
” beat up on the right because they need it. ”
You are of the presence to decide who “needs” and doesnt need beating up ?
You are a picture child for what the looney left is all about. I have said this repeatedly in most of my debates.
You have claimed to of known how many women I’ve had.
You claimed to know what I was thinking and feeling at times.
You consistantly accuse people of things that you cannot prove.
You minimize our enemy by relating to them with metaphors that categorize them as ” unruly children”
And I dont see you hurling incindeary and obscene words at them like you do our own citizens.
You pity them for supposed atrocities that we have commited against them, and then turn around and call Bush every name in the book and take joy when members of the right are subject to misfortune.
you justify the 911 attacks by saying that if Bush we’re not in office it never would of happened.
Would you like me to dig up that famous representation of the looney left remark you made ?
So please dude, spare the holier than thou judgemental rhetoric that you are the one who reserves the right to decise who gets beat up on and who doesnt.
Your past remarks and positions on things make my case that lunacy is predominantly on the left.
If everyone is as guilty as everyone else then why dont you ” beat up” on the left half as much as you do the right ?
CAIR TERRORIS
“For proof that Fox news is obnoxious you point to a Moveon.org action alert? ”
Jersey has done this to me before.
Better get used to that kind of fact finding method.
Jersey likes to use Peter to pay Paul
Jersey McJones says ” Don’t expect me or anyone else to be tolerant of intolerance. ”
Gosh, I love that line.
I think I’ll try to abide by it.
I’ll start by being intolerant of the intolerance shown by liberals toward anyone who disagrees with them.
Clean hands.
perfect !
But we should tolerate liberals intolerence. And only theirs.
This is not the first foray into the Kos that I’ve seen, with the same results. I have witnesses very articulate, and well thought out, points offered for debate by numerous academics to the Kos. They always end with vicious, personal, massively profane counters. Tolerance =s calling everyone, whom disagrees with you, every four letter word you can think of huh? I wish acceptance of legitimate debate was no longer old fashioned. Keep up the good fight Eric as you are much more articulate than I.
-POTR