Secular Support For Israel

Over the last couple of years, I have written about Israel many times. One of my readers asked a question regarding Israel that was worthy of an entire column. I want to preface this by saying that I know this person in real life. The questioner is a good human being with zero malice in his heart. He is not only not an anti-Semite, but I would say he is not anti-anybody. His legitimate question about the United States and its relationship with Israel deserves an attempt at an equally sincere response.

“Eric- there’s something I’d like you to clarify. Now, I realize that you’re of Jewish descent, and thus feel a tribal need to defend your people. I understand this.

What I don’t understand is why Israel is such a critical issue for our Nation. It’s a foreign nation- why are we intervening instead of letting them solve their own problems? Why is their problem necessarily ours?

I’m not saying I don’t think Israel is in the right here, but I just don’t understand why it’s an American issue at all. Why are we involved as a nation? Why not just stand back and let them solve their own problems?”

Again, I want to make it crystal clear that I am not offended by this question. Yet as with everything else, my background shapes my experiences. Therefore, at the risk of offending virtually everybody, including some supporters, I will briefly describe my personal journey regarding Israel.

I was not always a supporter of Israel. In fact, during my college years I was hostile towards Israel. I never supported Israel’s enemies, but I had utter contempt for Israel. There were two reasons for this.

One source of anger toward Israel occurred during the first Gulf War in 1990. Israel was being attacked with Scud Missiles, and America and England were telling Israel to “show restraint.” I wanted Israel to hit back. When they didn’t, I had to listen to liberal Jews (I attended the University of Judaism, where most of the people were leftist Jewish imbeciles.) state how proud they were that Israel showed restraint.

When the Los Angeles Palestinian Times came to the school, they did a piece on poor, weak, suffering Jews. It was pathetic. “As they left their kosher dinners untouched…” Then the interviewer turned to me. I boldly stated that, “I hope Saddam Hussein gets blown up now. I hope his whole country goes to blazes.”

The reaction of the other students was to express anger at me. They apologized for my “behavior.” Some of them even expressed that comments like mine were “going to get them all bombed.”

I went to the Vice President of the University, and expressed to him that “We are safe here. We are in Los Angeles. We are not going to get bombed. Saddam Hussein has better things to do than try and kill American citizens at a school he has never heard of. This fear gripping this place is insane.”

The Vice President agreed with me.

In my own “style,” I looked at my fellow students later that week and said, “If you guys want to be a bunch of gutless, sniveling crybabies, do it. I worry about real problems. My GPA isn’t high enough, and they want me to take music appreciation and art history on top of that. Like any future stockbroker needs these classes. Plus, Bo Jackson is injured, which is going to kill the Raiders next year. If that isn’t bad enough, my girlfriend keeps wanting to talk to me with her clothing on. Screw Scud Missiles. I have my own missile to worry about. If I don’t fire it into her soon I am going to go crazy. So either go cry about a war far away, or live your d@mn lives. I may not be warm and fuzzy, but I don’t sit cowering in the corner. I live my life.”

I wanted Israel to tell the world to “go f*ck itself.” My hostility towards Israel for being a gutless nation of wimps dissipated when I realized I was wrong. I eventually found out that Israel was retaliating. They were flying planes carrying out attacks. The planes were covered in American insignias. Arabs were screaming that Israel was pretending to be showing restraint while flying American planes. Israel got away with it. I was pleased and relieved.

The second reason I had hostility towards Israel was more personal. I have had negative experiences with Israelis. To me, Israelis were “Middle Easterners.” They were simply full of cr@p. When they would speak, I would know I was being lied to. Worse, they were rude.

Again, I can only judge people based on my life experiences. I remember the Israeli guy who screamed at me because I was watching a football game in the lounge. He came in and wanted to watch something else. He simply decided that what I was doing was less important. This same Israeli once got violent during a basketball game. I accidentally fouled him. He responded by putting his hands around my neck and trying to choke me. This guy was literally strangling me over a foul.

We were separated, and I called him a “Third World Savage Israeli Dog.” Ok, so that may not be polite, but his behavior certainly did fit that profile. He then went to the Dean’s office, and I got in trouble. So yes, because of a guy named Ran Patel, my view on Israelis was not positive. I did get along with Ran’s brother, but that did not matter. The damage was done. I told his brother, “I know you served in the Israeli Army, and I am no Palestinian lover, but people like your brother are why others support Palestinians. If a suicide bomber takes out your brother, I won’t lose an ounce of sleep.”

Yet even with animals like Ran Patel running around, my support of Israel itself existed. The reason was simple. I hated the Arabs more. With Israelis, I wanted them to shut up, stay in Israel, and stop criticizing America and acting like Israel is better. If they love Israel so much, stay there. With the Arabs, it was worse. Israelis may have been incredibly rude and obnoxious, but they were not trying to kill me. Outside of Ran Patel, most of them had never expressed violence towards me. Arabs were letting me know that they wanted to kill every Jew.

I finally went to Israel in August of 2008. I did not want to go. It was expensive. Yet my friend was getting married, so I had to go. I am glad I did. I was worried that it would be an entire nation of Ran Patels. It wasn’t. The people were very friendly. I had a lovely time. It allowed me to truly make peace with Israel.

Having said that, when I talk about “my dream vacation of a lifetime,” I am not referring to Israel. That trip was my 2006 trip to Canton, Ohio, to see the Pro Football Hall of Fame. My friends think I am crazy. I can’t help it. I love football, and the birthplace of the National Football League struck an emotional chord with me. Israel was beautiful, but I did not see it as visiting my homeland. I saw it as visiting a beautiful nation with friendly people. In that sense it was similar to my 2003 visit to Singapore and Thailand. Yes, Israel is the Jewish homeland, and I wanted to feel the emotional connection. I didn’t.

I bring all of this up because many people assume that I am Jewish, and therefore support Israel. Relationships, whether among humans, or in this case between a man and a nation, are complex.

I am Jewish, and while I have a deep respect for religious people, I am secular in the sense that I do not obey all of the religious laws. Unlike some secular people, I do not claim that the traditions are outdated. I praise religious people, and explain that I am secular due to my own shortcomings. I am lazy and undisciplined. For this reason, I have friends that are religious and secular. I take responsibility for my actions, and respect them all.

So why should anybody support Israel? More importantly, why would any non-Jewish person, especially a secular one, support Israel?

Without religious reasons, Israel absolutely should be supported.

The first issue is why America gets involved. I am very conflicted on this point. On the one hand, I still want Israel to tell the world to “go f*ck itself.” I still want the rest of the world, including America, to stop meddling. If we were to truly stay out of it, we would adopt the George W. Bush policy, which for all intents and purposes was to “let Ariel Sharon run wild.”

The problem with this is that AMerica gives Israel money, and I also believe that any nation receiving American money should shut up and do what we tell them to do. Otherwise, don’t ask for our money.

So yes, I am conflicted. However, my dream scenario is for Israel one day to no longer need American money. Then Israel could truly do whatever it wants. As long as they accept American dollars, those dollars will come with oversight.

Yet one issue involving Israel renders every other issue less important. It has nothing to do with religion.

Israel is a democracy.

More importantly, Israel is a democracy surrounded by dictatorships.

Most importantly, those dictatorships reer to Israel as “Little Satan.” America is “The Great Satan.” Hateful messages left by Arab lunatics often say, “Death to America. Death to Israel. Allah is Great.”

The Arab Muslims that want to wipe Israel off of the map then want to destroy America.

Israel is a democracy in an area that wants to create a caliphate. By supporting all democracies in the region, whether they be Israel or even pseudo-democracies such as Pakistan, America benefits. By supporting fledgling democracies where dictatorships used to exist, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, America benefits.

The Bush Doctrine of supporting democracy throughout the world is an absolutely correct vision. Democracy is better than dictatorship. If every nation were to become a democracy, the world would be better off. Yes, the American model of government is superior.

Why is this? Because democracies do not attack each other. Germany and Japan became democracies. When was the last time they bombed somebody? Even France, a disgusting nation in recent years before Nicolas Sarkozy, did not try to blow up America or Israel.

I cannot remember the last time in history that a pair of democracies had a hot war with each other.

America and Israel share values. Both of those nations share values with England and Australia. When those values are attacked anywhere in the world, “the Anglosphere” must respond forcefully.

America supports Israel because what we call 9/11, they call daily life. A democracy is being attacked by fanatical Islamofacist murderers. The barbarians have attacked London, Bali, Madrid, and New York. They are enemies of freedom, liberty, and democracy.

It is this global struggle that leads me to believe that America must stand squarely with Israel. I feel the same about Australia, and I have never been to Australia.

Yes, I am proud to be a Jew. Yes, my Jewish pride has led to me wanting to see Israel survive, despite the relationship between me and Israel not always being warm.

This is because enemies of Israel are enemies of America. My love of AMerica has never been in doubt. Israel is a nation that has meaning. Yet America is my home. It has given me everything I have.

Israel is our kid brother, as is Australia. Yet America is us.

Any threat against anybody that loves us is an attack against us. Our brothers would be there for us. We must be there for them.

It is the right thing to do morally. It is also sound policy strategically.


22 Responses to “Secular Support For Israel”

  1. Laree says:

    The Meaning of Life

    Week in Review & Monty Python’s Flying Circus. “ The Annoying Peasant” that is my theme for the week. Tea Party Et Al. I love Monty Python’s Flying Circus.

  2. Speaking of Monty Python, I love that scene from the Life of Brian where the various “fronts” are arguing at the stadium over their superficial politcal differences to the point of getting more angry at each other than the Romans. It’s funny how things have never changed in that part of the world.

    If you assert that Israel is a Democracy, than you must admit that the “occupied territories” are in fact occupied territories. You can not assert that the West Bank and Gaza are or should be part of Israel and claim that the territories are Israeli territory. It’s Occam’s Razor in action.

    I suppose you now, as an older man, understand that most Israelisare NOT Middle Easterners – they are Europeans. You should also understand that Israelis, like most Europeans, look at most Americans as a bit lowbrow and ignorant, and with good cause. Israelis tend to be better educated and more erudite than Americans. Personally, I have always gotten along well with Israelis and I’ve known many of them.

    As I said in that post with which you refer to in this article, there are quite valid reasons for America to support Israel and they are vast, complex and historical in nature. One major reason, though, is quite simple – we have a large Jewish population and they are poltically powerful and among our wealthiest demographics (along with, oddly enough, Cubans, gay men – but not gay women, and other surprising demos).

    That all said, it must be understood that Israel is not always right, no one is, and if you truly love and support someone then you should be the first to criticize them when they are wrong. one of the biggest problems we have with our relationship with Israel is that we are reluctant to criticize them even when we should. that it is not lobe, not respect, not support – that is blind acceptance, and that is wrong.


  3. Oops!

    “You can not assert that the West Bank and Gaza are or should be part of Israel and claim that the territories are part of an Israeli “democracy.”


  4. Micky 2 says:

    “and if you truly love and support someone then you should be the first to criticize them when they are wrong.”

    Yea, but if shes fine enough and the positives outweigh the negatives, if you’re smart, you’ll let it all slide.

  5. Micky 2 says:

    “One major reason, though, is quite simple – we have a large Jewish population and they are poltically powerful and among our wealthiest demographics (along with, oddly enough, Cubans, gay men – but not gay women, and other surprising demos).”

    Sorry, but us on the right are a little more concerned with the actual safety of our country and not just kissing the a$$es of evey minority or demographic possible just for the votes.
    Our relationship with Israel holds a much greater national security strategy than it does simple appeasement of those Jews in power here in the US.

  6. Dav Lev says:

    This is an easy one, “Why should we not support Israel” is the better

    For starters, throughout civilization, whoemver made war against the
    Jewish people, were themselves destroyed.

    Secondly, our G-d governs our future, not the pagan world (Iran, No. Korea, Syria, etc.)

    G-d created Israel for his chosen people, who received the commandments through Moses.

    So goes Israel, so goes the US. During WW2, when only the Jews were
    being murdered, or attacked..many thought it would never happen to them. Eventually 70m died thanks to this thinking..AND Hitler planned
    to invade and occupy both England and the US, while starving
    100 Russians to death to make room for his Germanic people’s (he said so).

    Israel was created by the UN, the only country in the Arab world not carved out
    the result of wars (WW1). Israel is recognized by most countries in the world and a legitimate member of the UN.

    Israel is a Judeo-Christian country having it’s ideals. It does not
    practice Sharia (Muslim) law.

    Israel shares a common culture with US, as well as all our principles.

    Israel is America’s best ally, that can be counted upon in the event
    US interests are attacked in the M.E.

    Israel is at war with Al Qaeda and Islamo-fascists which
    want to spread Islam throughout the world, including the US.

    Israel has Nobel Prize winners…how many do the Arabs have.

    Jewish support for Israel, does not preclude Christian support.
    Jesus Christ was a Jew, as were those around him, including

    And finally, Israel has 400 nukes…if cornered, and w/o US
    support, well you figure it out.

  7. Micky 2 says:

    In addition we have to remember that the Nazi docrine applied to the Jews in WW2 is the same doctrine that radical Islam has adopted as its operating theory against Israel and anything western, primarily the US.
    This is why the argument that they want us dead because of our presence anywhere in the middle east doesnt hold any water.
    The attacks by radical Islam/the muslim brotherhood have been going on long before any such western presence or intervention was ever opresent in the middle east Radical Muslims and even moderates as far back as 600 + years have been attacking anything that posed a threat to or stood in the way of their totalitarian visions.
    And yea, if all hell does break loose in the middle east due to India and Pakistan finally going for it or Iran getting ahold of the big one we can count on Israel being by our side.
    Also, those fools that think Christian America will cast aside Israel once our supposed ulterior motives are seriously misguided in that todays Christian as much as some believe the Jews killed christ are not the vengeful hate filled demons weve seen in wars of the middle ages.
    If anything, liberals hold a lot more in common with the Nazi Germany and our enemies today than any other organization besides the KKK or some straggling supremacy organizations.
    Think about it.
    Conservatives believe in a capitalistic society.
    Liberals and Hitler believe(d) in socialism.

    Conservatives believe that health care should be left up to private industry.
    Liberals and Hitler believe(d) that health care should be provided by the state.

    Conservatives believe in the pursuit of life liberty and happiness.
    Liberals and Hitler think/thought the world is overpopulated and that theres only room for those who think like them, or what could be seen by libs as the master race. In the liberals case they’re not so concerned with race, as long as the thinking is the same theres plenty of room for them.

    Conservatives are Christians who believe we should be able to worship in public.
    Liberals and Hitler actually wanted to subtract religion from the public eye

  8. Dav Lev says:

    I am also disgusted with Israel, European AND American Jewry for the most part, as
    I read Eric.
    Some of the reasons are the same, some are different, I loathe
    US Jewrys timidity, passivness, liberal let’s help everyone else before
    ourselves, naive attitude about our co-religionists in Israel and elsewhere,
    our (US) spending on outrageous bar mitsvahs and bat mitsvahs (when Jewish boys and girls become men and women in our faith), outlandish
    money spent on ridiculous weddings.

    I loathe my fellow US Jews assimilation to a fault, which NO OTHER
    PEOPLE do not, the Koreans, Chinese, Turks, Arabs, Irish, Italians,
    Polish, Germans, Armenians, Russians, Africans, or Japanese. No Christian or Muslim ever loses his (her) faith.

    I am ashamed that fully one-half of American Jews intermarry, with
    the majority of offspring never accepting Judaism, whether Orthodox
    (most religious) or Reform (least religious, believing in nothing per se
    Divine). To them it’s all man’s law..yeah right, like Prop 8.

    I am dismayed that we do not attempt to convert non-believers to
    our G-d (Hashem, Jehovah, or 10 other names) with any real
    vigor, that we are still intimidated against seeking converts and that we
    retain only the religion of our mothers.
    (Has anyone ever listened in to a Mormon’s shpiel, frankly it’s ludicrous.
    I am shocked when I hear Mormons tell my people you are “stiff necked”, yet won’t apologize for reincarnation or their concept of the trinity).

    I cannot understand why we US Jews vote 85% continually for
    the Democratic tax and spenders..with OUR money, to help pay
    for everyone else’s ills. (Hey folks, hows about stressing education
    first, hard work, long hours of study, replacing baseball and basket
    ball after school with study, as starters to succeed)

    I did, as did most of my friends, who today are engineers, post
    doctorates in chemistry, physics, math..are school adminisrators,
    doctors, financiers, controllers, work for large corporations, own their
    own corporations..We became social workers, and child psychologists.
    A few went into the newspaper business and others entertainment.
    We played the trombone, flute, violin, saxophone, clarinet..etc., in
    school bands. We became officers even in the military. We fought
    in Korea and Vietnam. My relatives fought the Krauts in the Rhineland,
    and cracked a few German heads in the process. Other relatives
    went after the Japanese in the Pacific.

    Don’t misunderstand me, we also participated in sports, music,
    art, etc. But we had our priorities right.

    We have strayed from the obvious, self-protection..we join groups now like Americans for Peace Now, Amnesty International, Young Democrats,
    and more than a few live in San Francisco, who financed Mrs. Pelosi.
    We think Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein are the answers to all
    of our problems, and keep on voting them into office, despite our
    state’s virtual collapse and 20 percent unemployed or unemployed. You know why folks, caus the others have moved out of the State. (See Oregon, Utah, Washington State, Nevada, Arizona, etc.)

    We applaud perks in Congress….while
    at the same time criticize John McCain, who we kept out of office.
    (Who is going to pay for the 13 trillion dollar deficit?).

    We Jews do our best not to aggravate our fellow citizens, while
    the Arabs have hundreds of pro-Palistinian US groups, lobby Congress
    to halt all aid to Israel, stop Jewish migration for those who want to
    relocate, put barriers on trade with the Jewish state, while they
    could not give a damn about their so-called Palestinian brothers.
    (Hey guys what about the 500 billion dollars year going to your Arab/Muslim
    brethren, bleeding our hard working taxpayers-over oil. Ever think
    of using it to support your buddies in Hamastan and Fatahland, instead
    of blaming the Jews for their economic plight. Oh I know, its the blockade.)

    I am ashamed that the US only gives Israel 2 bilion dollars a year,
    with which to purchase US made tanks and aircraft to defend
    yet some Jews demonstrate against even this.
    (Hey guys Israel is the only country in the M.E. that we (US) can count
    on should WE (US) be attacked or threatened.)

    I also loathe Israel, a virtually a puppet state of the US, Kowtowing to the EU,
    and UN, apologizing for defending themselves, rarely
    going on the offensive. I don’t want Israel to accept any money from
    the US taxpayer..with strings attached (now it is being required to
    account for every shekel it spends on weaponry with US money).
    I mean come on.

    I am frankly shocked that anyone would advocate Israel not nuke
    Iran, should it continue to pursue enriched uranium, defiant of 3 UNSC
    resolutions…weaponry that, in my opinion, will be used to complete
    Hitler’s goal. I loathe Jewish liberals who want US to stand aside,
    while all this is going on, as if it won’t affect us ultimately.

    Whenever I hear an American Jew dismiss the religion that kept us a
    a people, inspite of the odds and challanges over 2,000 years, who mock our religion by not observing our most important day, the Sabbath, who
    revel in eartng pig meat and shrimp, and combine Chanukah with Christmas (not our
    holiday folks) I feel sick. I do respect other people’s religion, but
    do they attend Yom Kippur services or celebrate Purim?

    To Eric…..and others, we don’t have to obey the 613 commandments given by G-d to us, we should however, give charity, observe the Sabbath, keep the kosher laws and follow the ten commandments.
    That is really all that is required. For the others, the laws of Noah
    are what we must expect.

  9. Micky 2 says:

    As a correction, in my last post I was directing it at Dav, not Dan.
    My bad

  10. I feel like I’m in an insane asylum here!

    God? Dan Lev? God? Your God, their God, the other guy’s God – it’s all irrational lunacy. When you boil it all down, if it weren;t for that irrational belief in God, the world – especially that part of the world – would be a much better place. God is the problem – not the answer.

    Micky, I’m not saying that the ONLY reason we support Israel is because we have a large, wealthy Jewish demographic in America, but to say that isn’t a reason at all would be just plain stupid. It is A reason.

    “Conservatives are Christians who believe we should be able to worship in public.”

    No. Annoying evangelicals are Christians who believe we should be able to worship in public.

    “I am frankly shocked that anyone would advocate Israel not nuke

    Murderous lunacy, Dan. You should see a psychiatrist.

    “Liberals and Hitler believe(d) that health care should be provided by the state.”

    Micky, Hitler also believed in invading everyone who got in his way, like you guys. EVERY developed on tyhe planet has some form of universal healthcare EXCEPT us. That’s the sleaziest thing I’ve ever read! EVER!

    “No Christian or Muslim ever loses his (her) faith.”

    What???????????????????????????????????????? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read! Do you even know any Christians or Muslims???? Lot’s of them lose their faith! 14% of Americans don’t even believe in anything!!!!

    You guys are losing it!


  11. Micky 2 says:

    “I’m not saying that the ONLY reason we support Israel is because we have a large, wealthy Jewish demographic in America, ”

    Jeez, I read it and you said that was the major reason.
    You’re wrong, at least on the part of the conservatives.

    “No. Annoying evangelicals are Christians who believe we should be able to worship in public.”

    Thats a bunch of really stupid crap.
    I can dig up any number of Christian denominations that worship in public.
    I see people of almost every faith worship in public wheter it be prayer or a simple bumper sticker.

    “Micky, Hitler also believed in invading everyone who got in his way, like you guys.”

    Thats not the point. And its a lie anyway, otherwise there would be no liberals on the planet.
    I was pointing out the things liberals had in common with Hitler
    Its been said that Hitler was missing some cajones, or one of em, you guys seem to have that in common with him also
    Everyone has some form of universal health care ? True, but the kind Obama wants is not what most people want.

    Still, those morons who equate Bush to Hitler may want to think twice before mouthing off that stupid crap again because in their reference they are using it as an implication like you do against Cheny and Bush that they are murderous dictators.
    I’m not calling anyone a genocidal murder for profit maniac. I’m just pointing out some the poloicies and positions you guys have that align you with Hitler more than anything on the right

    ““No Christian or Muslim ever loses his (her) faith.”

    I dont know, I think what Dav was trying to say is that of you were never commited to your faith in the first place if you lost it.

    Lots of people still believe in God and Jesus but just dont have much faith in them. To me thats a lot more realistic than being convinced something isnt there when you could never prove it is or isnt there in the first place.

    Please, dont say that people are loosing it just because they are able to entertain and respect a possibility thats just too dynamically faceted for you to comprehend or accept.

  12. Micky, how is “One major reason” the same as “the major reason”??? (And why do I let myself get caught up in these semantics contrivances with you?)

    And this Hitler, thing? Really? What are you, like ten? I have a mustache – does that mean I’m like Hitler? Are people with black hair like Hitler? How about short people? Are they like Hitler? How about people with girlfriends named Eva? Are they like Hitler? Eisenhower had the highway program, Hitler had the autobahn, does that mean Ike is like Hitler?

    Every other developed country on the planet has some form of universal healthcare, but somehow people that want it here are like Hitler? Really? Again, are you like ten years old?

    I think people who equate Bush to Hitler do so for some slightly, though still inadequate, more substantial reasons. Bush’s overeager hawkishness, zealous expansion of executive powers, with-us-or-against-us mantra were a little reminiscent of Hitler. But again, to equate Bush to Hitler is just as stupid, if not more stupid, as to equate Obama, or anything he does, with Hitler or his actions.

    “I dont know, I think what Dav was trying to say is that of you were never commited to your faith in the first place if you lost it.”

    No. He was ridiculing assimilation of the Jewish diaspora in America by asserting that Christians and Muslims are less likely to do so, and that simply is not true. Jewish tradition and culture has survived diaspora better than any other diasporatic culture in history. The key to this is the Jewish tradition of open mindedness. That’s why there are so few conservative Jews. In Judaism, this tradition is known a Reconstructionism – the ever evolving culture and tradition of the people and their faith. Judaism is not just a religion – it is a people, a tradition, a mindset, a philosophy, a way of life. Christianity and (much moreso) Islam maintain a relative status in their traditions, where in Judaism there is halachah, which allows for new ideas and traditions within the general framework of Jewish faith and culture, even in the Orthodox sects. The point here is simple – you can’t compare Christianity and Islam to Judaism when it comes to assimiliation. The fundamental difference is that the Christians and Muslims incorporated their faiths into their cultures while the Jews incorporate cultures into their faith. It’s a chicken-and-egg thing.

    Just the same, there has long been this fear among Jewish people that they would be assimilated out of existence, and that Zionism was a bulwark against that eventuality. Yet for thousands of years, against seemingly insurmountable odds, the Jewish people have managed to survive. I think these more conservative Jews who fear assimilation have a valid but exaggerated fear. Judaism will survive – long after Christianity and Islam are discarded bad memories.


  13. Micky 2 says:

    “(And why do I let myself get caught up in these semantics contrivances with you?)”

    Because you’re always the one obfuscating on stupid grammatical technicalities when you get cornered.

    You said the major reason were so close with Israel is for the political impact they have in america. Thats probably because most of them are liberal jews and very important to your voter base.
    I approach it as a unity between two countries based on them both having the same values.

    “What are you, like ten? I have a mustache – does that mean I’m like Hitler?”

    There you go, see ? Thats what I was just talking about in the above explanation. You obfuscate and bring up plain ole stupid comparissons when you know damn well I was talking about the lefts policies having more in common with Hitler/Nazis than the right.
    Thats all.
    I’ve yet to see you be able to draw as many things we have in common with Hitler as the left does.
    Instead you go off on this stupid tangent about hair and moustaches.
    Grow up, or at least learn how to stay focused on topic.

    “No. He was ridiculing assimilation of the Jewish diaspora in America by asserting that Christians and Muslims are less likely to do so, and that simply is not true.”

    Look, I was just taking a wild guess. maybe the first three words “I DONT KNOW” in my statement might give you a clue where I was coming from ?

    If you feel the way you do, so what ?
    The statement left a lot open to interpretation, didnt it ?

    ” It’s a chicken-and-egg thing.”

    No, its an egg-and-chicken thing.

  14. “You said the major reason were so close with Israel…”

    That’s a lie. I said amajor reason. A major reason. A. A. A. Please, God, get that already! Look, a major reason we took such an active interest in the Northern Ireland mess is because we have lots of Irish people here. A major reason we were reluctant to get into WWI and WWII is that we have a large German population. The heritage of our citizens plays a large role in our global interests. It’s not a knock on anyone or anything. It’s not a negative thing. It’s just a fact of life in America – a nation of immigrants.

    We DO NOT have the “same values” as Israel. That’s just silly. We are not the Biblical Jewish Promised Land, Micky (unless you happen to be a Mormon). Have have SOME of the same values, even MANY of the same values, but we DO NOT have “the same” values. We are a secular republic with a distinctive history and set of interests quite different from that of Israel. Yes, we are friends and allies with Israel, but we are not the same. And that’s okay.

    We shouldn’t ask or even want everyone to be the same as us, just as we wouldn’t want every person to be the same as every other. That’s the big flaw of the neocon New World Order – we can and should NOT impose our “values” on the rest of the world. Many of our “values” aren’t even all that good. Many of our “values” are rather nasty, selfish, cruel, and inhumane. Israel, for instance, is FAR more socialistic than American could ever be. Israel is not colonialistic, and makes little or no effort to impose it’s will on small, helpless foreign nations for profit. Really, there are lots of things about Israel to be admired. In a lot of ways, I wish we were a hell of a lot more like Israel!


  15. Micky 2 says:

    “That’s a lie. I said amajor reason. A major reason. ”

    Nope, good god cant you even read your own sh*t man ????

    “One major reason, though, is quite simple ”

    I’m not gonna play your stupid a$$ girly game anymore where you resort to cheap sematics to get out of the stupid craqp you say. Grow the hell up already would you ?
    I’m focused on the point that you see the Jewish population as part of a voter base for your party seeing as most American jews are liberals.
    If you dont like that opinion of mine tuff spit

    “We DO NOT have the “same values” as Israel. That’s just silly.”

    Of course we do.
    “Shared values is the reason most Americans want our government to support Israel. For Republicans and Independents it is as clear as possible – half or more than half mention “value” as their main reason – for Democrats is a third, but still the most profound reason. But look at the second most important reason:”

    “Have have SOME of the same values, even MANY of the same values, but we DO NOT have “the same” values.”

    Jeez, isnt it obvious to you how weak your case is when you resorto these penny ante little sematics ?
    “many” and “some” of those values are “the values”.

    Whatever, we have enough values in common with the same to say that we have.
    All I said was ” I approach it as a unity between two countries based on them both having the same values.”

    Which is true in the case with any country we share a unity or alliance with.
    Its as simple as that GOT IT MORON!!!!
    Enough this bullsh*t already, I’d rather argue with 10 year old.

    “Yes, we are friends and allies with Israel, but we are not the same. And that’s okay.”

    Gee, really ? I had no idea.

    “We shouldn’t ask or even want everyone to be the same as us, just as we wouldn’t want every person to be the same as every other. ”

    Who the hell said we were ? Or are you just preaching and mouthing off again to make your self sound righteous and feel good about yourself ?

    “That’s the big flaw of the neocon New World Order – we can and should NOT impose our “values” on the rest of the world. ”

    And yet you morons will allow anyone to come into our country and do just that.
    Since when was it a flaw to impose peace and democracy upon murdering dictating theocracies ????
    You guys are running all over the world imposing your brand of values on everyone.

    ” I wish we were a hell of a lot more like Israel! ”

    Right now I’m not crazy about having missiles launched at me everyday.
    But hey, liberals like being miserable so whats new ?

  16. Laree says:


    I was going to post this in the last post because George W Bush was for faith based funding. Geithner Caps on Charitable Giving & Caps on other exemptions is going to have far reaching effects on the most vulnerable in our Country. Many are trying to alleviate the inevitable downturn in Charitable Giving. The need isn’t going to go away because Geithner decides his CAPS can fund Universal Health Care??? I guess the man knows some about stealing from Peter to pay Paul?

    Imus In The Morning is offering a new subscription feature like Bill O’Reilly’s premium service. The proceeds go to Imus Ranch for Children with Cancer and Blood Disorders a lot of charities are going to be affected by the caps for charitable giving. Meanwhile Obama lectures us on spending money on the things we need and not on the things we don’t. uh huh so who gets to decide what (A) need turns out to be?

  17. Laree, Faith Based charitable institutions vary with what they do and for whom they do it, but for the most part they barely scratch the surface of the needs of societies “most vulnerable.” They make up a tiny proportion of aid to the needy. For example, some 32 million Americans now make use of Food Stamps (thanks to years of laizzez faire corruption and incompetence), whereas only about 3.9 million households utilize a food bank at one point in a year. That’s not to say that charities shouldn’t be supported, but put in context, they are a very small part of societies social safety net.

    Micky, whatever. You haven’t proven anything I said to be wrong. We have a lot in common with Israel, but we have a very different set of values, laws, interests, and demographics. And we probably wouldn’t take much interest in Israel if we didn’t have an influential Jewish population. These are just basic, obvious realities.


  18. Laree says:

    Everyone should watch this video – this is what is going on in Canada?

  19. Laree says:


    The Safety Net you talk about gets exploited by non needy people all the time. The amount of people in need might be smaller if people recognized there are those who would rather scam the system then be self sufficient. Most times it is the people who fall through the system’s cracks that charities help. And American’s are very generous people when it comes to Charity. Why would anyone want to change the charitable giving habits of Americans?

  20. Micky 2 says:

    “Micky, whatever. You haven’t proven anything I said to be wrong. We have a lot in common with Israel, but we have a very different set of values, laws, interests, and demographics.”

    And neither have you.

    1.7% of the American population is Jewish and you say “the ONLY reason we support Israel is because we have a large, wealthy Jewish demographic in America”

    Ha ! You’re a nut if you think 1.7% is a large demographic.

    Theres much more reason to side with Israel than for the 1.7% that live in America. Even if not one single Jew lived in America we would still share the same values of freedom and life, a stable middle east, that we share with Israel. We would still share the same value of seeing the enemy for what he truly is unlike you morons who only kiss up to the local American Jews for votes. yoy guys could give a crap about Israel.
    Nice try but we werent talking about “laws” or “interests”.

    Can you wrap your head around that ?

    And you’re absolutly wrong about the use of food banks in America which are mostly driven by faith based charities.
    Regardless of what you think, we the cons and christians donate more than any other demographic in the country.

    Note, the info on this PDF is anywhwre from 2 to 5 years old and the numbers still prove you wrong.
    Food pantries and emergency kitchens are the main
    direct providers of emergency food assistance.
    These agencies are locally based and rely heavily on
    volunteers. The majority of them are affi liated with
    faith-based organizations. (See Ohls et al., 2002, for
    more information.) Most of the food distributed by
    food pantries and emergency kitchens comes from
    local resources, but USDA supplements these resources
    through The Emergency Food Assistance Program
    (TEFAP). In 2007, TEFAP supplied 340 million
    pounds of commodities to community emergency food
    providers. Over half of all food pantries and emergency
    kitchens received TEFAP commodities in 2000, and
    these commodities accounted for about 14 percent of
    all food distributed by them (Ohls et al., 2002). Pantries
    and kitchens play different roles, as follows:
    Households that received food and nutrition assistance—except for
    WIC—also spent less for food than nonrecipient households (table 13).31
    Typical (median) food expenditures of households that received food stamps
    were 87 percent of the cost of the Thrifty Food Plan.32 The corresponding
    statistics were 83 percent for households with children who received free or
    reduced-price school lunches, and 82 percent for households that received
    emergency food from food pantries.

    “(thanks to years of laizzez faire corruption and incompetence), ”

    Barney Frank, Chriss Dodd, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Jimmey Carter, Bill Clinton,

    As a matter of fact the last time we saw a jump in unemplyement and food stamp recipients like this was during the Carter administration.
    Yup, leave it to the dems to
    Welcome Back Carter”

  21. GrammaSheila says:

    Israel deserves the support of the United States because God said so. I know that’s not secular, but it’s good enough for me.
    “I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” (Genesis 12:2-3)
    Take a look around the world at the condition of the nations who have traditionally “blessed Israel”…and at those who have not.
    Who looks blessed?

  22. gaylea says:

    I agree with Gramma Sheila. “I will bless those who bless you” is a good enough reason all by itself!

    It’s a good post, Eric, and I’m sure you judged an entire people by the actions of only one because you were very young at the time. Some of us do actually manage to grow up and learn, don’t we? And obviously some don’t!

    I don’t understand those who don’t support Israel and I want them to stand up for themselves too. I wish they didn’t feel it necessary to take funds from the United States, especially with the Democrats in power.

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