At the 2009 Republican Jewish Coalition winter leadership meeting, I had the pleasure of meeting Elliott Abrams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams
Elliott Abrams was the Deputy National Security Adviser for Global Democracy Strategy under President George W. Bush. His expertise and analysis of foreign policy, particularly the Middle East, is virtually unparalleled.
(His comments were off the record and have since been redacted.)
Elliott Abrams offered a sobering assessment of the region, but it was not grim. He has hope, but not a Pollyanna based naivete.
I spoke briefly to Mr. Abrams briefly in front of Ari Fleischer. I asked them both the same question.
“How is President Bush? Is he at peace, or has everything gotten to him?”
They both let me know that they would be speaking to him soon, but that in recent visits with him, he was absolutely at peace. He is a man who remains comfortable in his own skin. He did what he felt was right, and is comfortable with his actions and decisions.
I thanked them both, and let them know that I will go to my grave knowing that with regards to the biggest issue, the War on Terror, that they did the right thing. Naturally they thanked me. I also asked them to give the boss a hug. I suspect it will be a handshake, but they did appreciate my sentiments.
I am glad President Bush is at peace. Perhaps part of that peace is due to having great advisers around him such as Elliott Abrams.
I also thank Mr. Abrams for putting me at peace as well.
Now if only the region will achieve peace. That will be a tougher task, but the timetable may very well improve if a future Republican President brings Elliott Abrams back into the White House foreign policy apparatus.
eric
Eric,
Thank you so much for this post. Just knowing that GW is well and at peace is very comforting. I have been concerned about his state of well being even though we both know him as a strong and confident person. The abuse he has endured during what I consider to be the most difficult Presidency since Lincoln, had to weigh heavily on him physically and emotionally. It is good to hear he is will.
Thanks,
Toma
Today I received a phone call from a local rabbi, who I had never
spoken to before. He invited me to attend the Passover at his
temple.
I asked him if I could invite Christian friends to help observe
the rituals? He answered in the affirmative.
I know that Christians attending will be inspired.
Today, I performed a mitsvah, a good deed. I try to
do one each day. It’s part of the commandments given
by my G-d to Moses for the Israelites.
Unfortunately the bad Jews (Madoff) get all the publicity in the media.
We don’t hear about the research scientists, doctors, school
administrators, engineers, musicians, who happen to be Jewish and
who daily perform mitsvahs.
I do know that Mr. Madoff is all the rage in the Arab-Muslim worlds.
They still believe a group of Zionists caused 911.
Condi says history will tell the story of Iraq..I say, we don’t need history
Bush freed 50 million Muslims from tyranny. We don’t need history to reveal to US that there have been NO terrorist attacks in the US since then., partly because of GITMO and the interrogation techniques.
(Several released terrorists have gone back to their old ways of
killing Jews and Infidels (Christians).
Bush, I love you.
I’ll never understand why neocons think spending for the “War on terror” was such a great thing, but paying for it should be the job of their children and grandchildren. This was the first war where the rich neither paid for or fought it. Only an a truly idiotic person could be at peace with that.
JMJ
“Only an a truly idiotic person could be at peace with that.”
Ya know, its you who looks like an idiot when you say things like that.
because you know damn well that guys like myself and Eric have no problem sleeping at night knowing this country did what it had to in order to keep yours and your loved ones butts safe.
You are by all means calling me and those who agree with me idiots, so… right backatcha buddy.
Just because the rich werent taxes thru the a$$ during the Bush years doesnt mean that ultimate prices werent paid, like humans lives !
That is the ultimate spending brother and it woulld serve you well to reckognize that to keep from looking like any more of a fool than you already are.
The job of children in the case of the war was to actually make sure they had a country to live in 30 years from now.
Obama will spend trillions tearing down this country but saddling our kids and grandkids with the bill it took to do that, that is ALREADY 3 OR MORE TIMES WHAT THE WARS COST !!!!!
So please, dont talk about saddling kids with debt in the future when Obama has manged to break all records in that dept. in 3 short months.
Do the math, get a calendar, then see whos the idiot.
——————-
I’m glad Bush is happy, good.
I wish I could pour all my culinary talents into a dinner for him and Laura and just see the glow on their faces at that first bite.
My relatives fought in the Rhineland, after going through France and being trapped in the “Bulge”. Others were in the South Pacific, in some of the worst battles of that war.
Over the years, they have amazed me with their exploits and sacrifices. The GIs knew they were in a war, and fought it. Once the war was declared (5 years too late), everyone chipped in. Most of the US resources
went towards the war..there were few (only German and Japanese sympathizers), and some Irish who hated England more than the Axis
Powers.
They fought it to protect me and my generation and future generations of
Americans. Had we lost, we know would all be speaking German. There wre plans to administer the captured US. Part of the strategy was
to use local police to supervise and aid in that occupation, as was done
in France, etc.
The German already had plans to use the Bobbies in England similarly.
They had reviewed court record, telephone books and voting records
to determine where the ‘Jews” were. We all know what that would have met.
In Palestine, Rommels army was stopped prior to invading Palestine and
ending the lives of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Jews which
had secured themselves in the north of the area, in the mountainous country. Moshe Dayan was part of this effort, who later became the hero
of the Six Day War, when men were men, and were not the wishful appeasers leading Israel for over ten years.
During that war, the Israeli soldiers found mobile gas vans in the Sinai,
Sound familar. During the 73 War, Syria cut off the genitals of the
captured Jewish soldiers.
So much for peace with the Arab.
As one poster commented, rightly, the “Tarp” and “Stimulus” package
have cost US trillions in just a few months, an indebtedness that will take
generations to pay back. Our major industry, the auto manufacturers
and their supplies are almost history, thanks to the whiz kids in
Washington and their theories (tell that to an auto worker in Michigan
laid off), or the bond holders of GM who invested their money. It’s called capitalism. While back at J Street, another 400 billion in relief is being
considered…to create more jobs? Hey anyone out there reading the
latest news about job layoffs?
My taxes haven’t gone up (Federal that is) yet, but thanks to the
recession, the State taxes have.
My children and grandchildren and their children will be paying hundreds of billions, and that is just for interest.
Obama has yet to address the two most important entitlements, medicare
and social security. Hows about it guys!
In effect, 4,200 (Iraq) men and woman have paid the ultimate price
for allowing us to post so liberally (excuse the pun).
The same people who protested the war most vocifereously, would
under Sharia law, have their U know what’s cut off. and it ain’t a cicumcision. If you don’t believe me, just listen to Ahmad’s speeches
at the UN and elsewhere. (Why do we allow scum like this to even
touch our shores?).
911 cost US over 3,000 lives and trillions of dollars. Bush didn’t bring on that disaster, the Democrats did. The Republicans didn’t bring on
the sub-prime mortgage crisis, the Democrats did.
I am a registered Democrat, but have voted Republican in the last
three elections. I am against Obama’s march towards socialism and
his naivety towards our enemies.
We have given trillions of dollars in aid to the rest of the world since WW2.
The more we give, the more THEY hate US..yet accept our petro dollars
with glee.
Perhaps some day, we will wake up, perhaps?
JMJ,
No one here is an idiot. I don’t understand your hate?
Toma
Dav Lev,
Where’s Moshe Dayan when you need him. The appeasers are in charge and will be for a long time. The Arabs are not appeasers they are doers but none of our appeasers pay any attention to what they do or what they say they are going to do. What Israel has to wake up and realize is there are no true allies. The only so called ally, U.S., is owned by the appeasers now and I believe Israel is on its own. God be with you.
Toma
Toma, it’s not hate, but an observaion of human nature. They say ignorance is bliss, and to some extent I suspect that’s true. I don’t know if Bush is really “at peace” with his presidency. I get the feeling he’s not. Why? The non-pardoning of Scooter Libby. I wonder if Bush was out of the loop on the Plame outing, and for that matter on a lot of Iraq War buildup. The “16 words,” the ever-changing rationales, the about-face Cheney pulled in coming to say that it was a good idea… I wonder if Bush was just caught up in something bigger than himself. Ike warned us about this kind of thing – that a huge military sector would lead to imperialism, colonialism, unjust, unnecessary wars. I wonder if the military sector, a very large, very powerful, very influential, very corrupt and corrupting, completely taxpayer dependent sector of our society simply wanted a war and Bush was just the perfect patsy to make it so. That’s what Bush was, afterall – a patsy. That’s why Bin Laden struck when he did. He knew Bush. He knew how Bush and Co would react. He knew the state of a nation that would elect a Bush would be ripe for what he wanted to accomplish – to make America into a unifying enemy of the Muslim world, and mush of the rest of it. He knew we were reactionary and easily baited. He knew the MIC and Big Oil had it’s sights on Iraq. Bush’s administration was chock full of MICers and Big Oil guys, and that time, so was the Hill.
No, Toma, this is not about hate. It’s about trying to figure out what went so horribly wrong.
Micky, here’s some info from the CBPP: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=125
When you through in the tax cuts, the borrowing, the extra “emergency spending,” Bush and Co wrecked the federal budget. There’s no other way to look at it. Obama may be spending, but he’s raising the revenues to pay for the spending. Bush spent, but then didn’t raise the reveneues. And then, on top of that, he spent really only on the military, borrowing the money to do it and thus raising the costs and putting the bill off for the future. Bush and Co and their supprters were simply the marks for the military sector over the past eight years. These guys would get yours and my money and the wealthy wouldn’t have to flit the bill, at least for the then time being.
The CBPP put it very well:
“Despite rhetoric to the contrary, domestic discretionary programs have not been growing rapidly. In fact, this is the only part of the budget where costs have been shrinking relative to the economy, which means these programs are not putting upward pressure on revenues.
By contrast, funding for defense and related areas has been growing far faster than any other part of the budget, much faster in fact than Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Moreover, defense remains the fastest growing area of the budget even if one excludes the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the global war on terror.”
As I said, the wealthy neither paid for nor fought the war. They stuck the bill with the next presidents and congresses, whom they will conveniently blame for “taxing and spending” when the time comes to pay the bill. It’s soooooooo outrageously sleazy, that it make me wonder if you guys are all seriously brain-damaged not being able to see it for what it is.
Dan Lev,
“We have given trillions of dollars in aid to the rest of the world since WW2.”
No we haven’t. Where the heck did you get that from? Are you just making it up? No wonder you guys hate the rest of the world! You don’t have clue what’s going on in it. Dan Lev, read this: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/0xx/doc8/foraid.pdf It explains our foreign aid since WWII. Then maybe you’ll know what you’re talking about.
JMJ
” Bush was just the perfect patsy to make it so. That’s what Bush was, after all – a patsy. That’s why Bin Laden struck when he did. ”
Its easy to be hateful when one is so ill informed, especially when evidence to prove otherwise has been presented to that person time and time again.
Yes, you’re hateful and its pointed out very clearly in your insistent repeating the same false accusations over and over again as a mechanism to do harm to someone who doesn’t deserve it.
911 plans were made long before Bush’s was even a glimmer in the eye of any presidential ballot and yet you so ignorantly and hatefully spread the viscous lie that Osama choose Bush as the presidency he wanted to target.
Bullsh*t !!!!!!
And you have nothing but contemptuous hate driving what you cannot prove while the evidence points to Osama targeting America on a plan that was designed to attack us on that very day no matter who was running the country.
We had this debate once before and you had no evidence to the contrary to prove the lie that 911 happened because of Bush. As a matter of fact the evidence, real facts, all pointed to a plan that was in motion during the Clinton term.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Osama might of been glad it happened on Bush’s watch but that’s a whole nuther debate, but you cant prove that Osama knew who our president would be in 1996.
The plan was scheduled to go forward regardless of who was in office.
And you accuse others of being clueless and making things up ?
How far up did you have to reach to pull that out huh ?
“Bush’s administration was chock full of MICers and Big Oil guys, and that time, so was the Hill. ”
Clinton and Bush senior had just as many corporate magnates and interests on their side as any other president, what a line of crap.
Jersey, you take that economic rundown and wipe something with it.
The F A C T is that Obama has saddled us with more debt in the first 3 months than any president ever at a cost more than that of both wars combined.
The “Bush did it first” argument is tired beaten horse already especially since Obama promised to be different than Bush. Since Obama spent his entire campaign vilifying anyone who had ever shaken Bush’s hand, however, you have nothing on the fact that not only has he outspent Bush on crap that will never create a dollar he has given us a budget that our kids and grand kids will be paying “THE INTEREST” alone on for decades.
Obama has spent more money in 3 months than” ALL” the presidents since Washington including Bush.
Bush did sign the initial bailout right before the election, so he is somewhat responsible “BUT” !! Obama was the pitch man for that bill and Bush’s bailout was not one iota as bad as Obama’s.
As for the Bush deficit; most of it was spent on a war that saved lives, put a “PROVEN” enemy in its place and that is was the rightful use of Federal tax dollars. The feds are not supposed to tax us for welfare/ bailouts. I would suggest instead of that crap you put down you read The Federalist by Alexander Hamilton and John Jay where they can make you aware of how there should be limited the power of government and why they did not think it was right to relieve us of what is rightfully ours just because someone has sold a bunch of idiots on Marxism disguised as patriotism, or for any reason for that mater.
Finally, I would still love to see you prove to me or anyone with half a brain that Obama has not given our kids and granites a bill to pay that is anywhere near as big as the debt Bush ran up.
Maybe its you who doesn’t know what he’s talking about !
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6569
” Since World War II the United States has spent nearly $1 trillion (in 1997 dollars) on foreign aid. The result is debt, dependency and poverty.”
Really, you oughta start wising up, maybe then again you’re acting this way because you’re having a hard time adjusting to what its like being on the defensive for a change.
“that it make me wonder if you guys are all seriously brain-damaged not being able to see it for what it is. ”
Like I said, with the facts given, when you say things like this, it makes you look like the one with problems when your best defense it deny, deny, deny, state your opinion as fact and then call people idiots, brain damaged, whatever.
It used to bug me but now I don’t get too upset by it anymore as its become painfully evident that its really the best defense you and most liberals have is to always question ones intelligence or sanity.
Its an old arrogant snooty elitist (think they are) tactic that just makes those who use it look pathetic and weak and without a substantial argument.
“No, Toma, this is not about hate. It’s about trying to figure out what went so horribly wrong.”
Yes, you are hateful, you lie, you make stuff up not to help your country but just satisfy your lust for hate towards Bush.
What’s so horribly wrong is that people like you clog up the system and minds with crap you cant prove, you poison minds, you’re hurting the country at the cost of getting your spiteful yayas off.
If you really wanted to figure out what went wrong you would look for real truth aside from your preconceived notions.
I know I’m as partisan as they come, but at least I can give credit where its due no matter how much I dislike someone’s ideology or politics.
Obama is a smart man, no doubt, but like I’ve said, you can be very well educated and posses incredible intelligence. But can be as dumb as a rock for using at all for the wrong reasons and intentions.
So with that I have no problem calling him an idiot in the sense that he’s going to destroy this country.
On the other hand, you dislike Bush’s politics but give the man no credit in any intellectual department whatsoever.
That’s just childish hate when you constantly call the man and “everything” he’s done a “complete and utter unmitigated abject failure”
Childish.
Micky, really, the whole “hateful” thing isn’t doing anything for me. I’m not a conservative; who by definition hates everything the least bit out my perceived order. And my feelings about Bush and Co are not irrational. They’re based on my observations of their actions, rhetoric, policies and ideology. That whole “hate” thing from the rightwing is such a load of sleaze and bait ‘n switch. Grow up already. It’s the ultimae in childish hypocrisy.
Take this whole stupid “tea party” bs that’s going on right now. Where were these shmucks when the GOP one-party state doubled the national debt in record time? Now they complain when the Dems have to once again clean up the mess. Hypocrits. Stupid, sleazy hypocrits.
Yes, and ” Since World War II the United States has spent nearly $1 trillion (in 1997 dollars) on foreign aid.” That’s in 1997 dollars and even then its ONE trillion dollars – not “trillions” – and in actuial dollars spent, nopt nearly even one trillion. So, once again, I caught one of you guys just makin’ stuff up as you go along, all in the name of xenmphobic ghatred and blaming the poor and downtrodden while cowardly giving the wealthy, powerful and elite a free pass.
What a joke.
JMJ
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gxAP_ul1xtDvN-3H8XQ5EaI6_7cAD97BTBD80
Oh, and here’s what that paranoid rhetoric from the rightwingnuts get’s ya’. Three dead cops.
JMJ
Your wrong because you cannot prove what you claim is right so you resort to deceptive and disengenuous practices such as contempt prior to and even after investigation.
This has been proven and made evident in my last two years of dealing with you as you rarely have anything but empty rhetoric and opinions to base your arguments on.
“Take this whole stupid “tea party” bs that’s going on right now. Where were these shmucks when the GOP one-party state doubled the national debt in record time? Now they complain when the Dems have to once again clean up the mess. Hypocrits. Stupid, sleazy hypocrits.”
Ya see, this the perfect example of what I’m talking about.
Whether you agree with the purpose or benfits of the war is irrelevant, what the money was spent on is irrelevant in this discussion.
What is relevant is the spending which in the face of all undeniable truth that Obama has outspent any admini9stration ever in less amount of time than any administration ever you still maintain the same weak argument that Bush holds the record for doubling the debt in record time.
At this point is history it is no longer true.
But you still hang on to your assertion like a childish little boy who cant accept the fact that his beloved parent (obama) is bad.
Go ahead, kick and scream , keep lying, its just proves my point further that you’re a chronic liar fed by hate.
You think that nut represents the position I take as a conservative ?
You think that I cant find just as many nuts on the left like Bernie Madoff who was an avid democratic supporter that ruined hundreds of lives. One of the Wall street investors you hate so much. heh, big time liberal was also a capitalist pig.
What makes you think I cant come with just a many loons on the left that have killed people due to their ideology ?
All that link did was make you look desperate for some kind of retaliation that doesnt touch on the issue of democratic spending at all.
—————-
JMJ:
“So, once again, I caught one of you guys just makin’ stuff up as you go along, all in the name of xenmphobic ghatred and blaming the poor and downtrodden while cowardly giving the wealthy, powerful and elite a free pass.”
Not even bub.
You set yourself up to beat all to easely, you dont even do defensive research before you go opening your yap accusing preople of stuff while making youself out to be some kind of know it all when nothing could be further from the truth.
I already had these links in waiting to see what your reaction would be to only one trillion when Dan Lev said ” trillions “.
I was right, I knew you’d stick you chest out and get all cocky and arrogant and go bragging
Well here ya go buddy, theres even more trillions weve donated to other coutries that arent even here I cans how you if you’d like.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html
Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today’s population, that is more than $5,700 per person
—————
http://www.globalenvision.org/library/2/1064
“However, Gordon Brown was silent about the other tragedy of the world’s poor. This is the tragedy in which the West already spent $2.3 trillion on foreign aid over the last 5 decades and still had not managed to get 12-cent medicines to children to prevent half of all malaria deaths. The West spent $2.3 trillion and still had not managed to get $4 bed nets to poor families. The West spent $2.3 trillion and still had not managed to get $3 to each new mother to prevent 5 million child deaths. The West spent $2.3 trillion and Amaretch is still carrying firewood. It’s a tragedy that so much well-meaning compassion did not bring these results for needy people.
The West’s efforts to aid the Rest have been even less successful at goals such as promoting rapid economic growth, changes in government economic policy to facilitate markets, or promotion of honest and democratic government. The evidence is stark: $568 billion spent on aid to Africa, and yet the typical African country no richer today than 40 years ago.”
You lose, AGAIN.
Really, you’d think you’d learn by now that I never ever speak outta my rump.
This report is 2 years old at 2 trillion
http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/2-trillion-on-foreign-aid/
Heres the whole kit n kaboodle, about 64,000 references that weve spent more than two trillion dollars in foriegn aid since WW2
Now, would you like to add on all the charitable aid from the Christian right ? The private sector ?
Because you see, the 2 trillion figure is stricly from our government and not anything else so we could add on all the others considering that they constitute as American dollars also.
http://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=America+has+spent+trillions+in+foreign+aid&page=2&nt=SG2&s_cs=-8583470532335013458&s_it=keyword_rollover
JMJ.
WOW!! I am impressed!! The inside knowledge you possess is amazing.
I mean knowing what Bin Laden was thing all the time. How he realized how an America that could elect “a Bush” would react and knowing exactly when to strike. Knowing that Bush would stack his administration with Big Military and Big Oil. Bin Laden is possibly the smartest man on the planet. How can we as mere mortals contend with this, this, this, opportunistic mass murder comminicating from a damn cave.
I’m glad we have a MIC. Maybe we will be able to protect yourselves.
Imagine if you will, Iran with a MIC, N. Korea with a MIC. I think we had better be prepared for the worst and pray it don’t come.
Toma
P.S. I hope I didnt post this to late for you.
Mick, I would like to come to the Islands and indulge in your culinary talents.
I’ll take the CBO’s real numbers over those, Micky. Besides, the vast majority of foreign aid was spent between 1946 and 1966. Since then, we’ve spent less per capita than almost any other developed nation on the planet.
It also depends on what you call “aid.” Some people include loans, military expenses, education grants, etc, but it’s hard to sum all that up. It just plain ol’ direct foreign aid, we’ve spent far less than even one trillion dollars, and most of that between 1946 and 1966 rebuilding Europe and Japan and South Korea, starting the peace corps, etc. Then, of course, there were our utterly wasteful and counterproductive support for the failed regimes of nationalist China, Diem, the Contras, and so forth. But whatever. All that matters is that once again I caught you guys making stuff up.
Charity is another matter. Again, very hard to sum up. The Catholics run the biggest charity in the world, but the money comes from all over the world and goes all over the world. Many charities are not really charities at all, but rather proselyzing mechanisms. Many charities are also pretty just just useless – same goes for direct foreign aid.
JMJ
Toma, Bin Laden said all that stuff himself. If you’re impressed by the fact that I read the news once in a while, then boy would you be wowed by my magazine subscriptions!
I know you’re glad that we have a ridiculous military complex. If there’s one thing I know about conservatives – deep down inside, they hate the Founders and their trifling ideas. Our Founding Fathers would be appalled to see the military empire we have today. Ike was right. He knew what he was talking about. He warned us and we didn’t listen. We were so consumed by paranoia and fear, we lost the fundamental tenet of our republic – that we would not be like the old European empires of the past. Now here we are, the largest military empire the world has ever known, with tenticles spread over a hundred and forty nations, spending more on our war machine than every other state on the planet COMBINED. We are the New Rome (that’s why I laugh so hard when moronic “Christians” talk about us being “blessed” by God and God’s chosen nation! What a lark!).
JMJ
You are right Jers we have an enormous military complex and many tenacles spread far and wide. Hitler had an enormous military complex with tenacles spread far and wide. The USSR had an enormous military complex with tenacles spread far and wide. Iran would love to have an enormous military complex with tenacles spread far and wide. N. Korea would love to have a enormous military complex. China has an enormous military complex and are poised to spread tenacles at their pleasure.
There WILL BE enormous military industrial complexes. The question is who do you want to be in control. Name you pleasure, and live with it.
Ike was right. But we are talking human nature aren’t we?
Toma
“I’ll take the CBO’s real numbers over those, ”
Oh, how convenient for you huh ?
It seems the CBOs numbers arent good enough when projecting Obamas deficit in 9 years but now their numbers are good enough in tallying aid ?
“Micky. Besides, the vast majority of foreign aid was spent between 1946 and 1966.”
Oh, and now you’re going to start fine tuning the applications to the argumment by saying between 66 and 46 ?
No, you cant do that and remain honest,(what do you care?) we were talking about between WW2 and now, not 40 years ago.
“Since then, we’ve spent less per capita than almost any other developed nation on the planet.”
Thats not relevant to the point in its original statement and neither are the dates, were talking about since WW2. Period.
“It also depends on what you call “aid.” Some people include loans, military expenses, education grants, etc, but it’s hard to sum all that up.”
Here we go again, you sound like Clinton trying to define ” IS “, now you’re looking for little exceptions and little obfuscations and doing your little dodging trick as I mentioned earlier which is to change the course and context of the argument as it goes on by excluding this and then adding a little of that untill were not even talking about the same thing anymore.
The bottom line is…
Toma said;
“We have given trillions of dollars in aid to the rest of the world since WW2.”
And that is what I have proven.
You have not proven to the contrary, you have not proven your end of the argument.
All you’re doing now is running off the mouth going here and there with a bunch of exclusions and exceptions when the fact is that all this crap weve given to the world since WW2 cost money and YES ! IT COST TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS !!!
” But whatever. All that matters is that once again I caught you guys making stuff up.”
No you havent, now you’re lying again.
I’ve shown you reputable recordings of our expenditures while you have not proven your point with anything again other than trying to say that your word trumps everything.
Honestly, you’re the biggest liar I’ve ever met. I’ve met nastier ones but you take the cake on volume.
You sit there right in the face of the facts and still say you caught us making stuff up ?
SHOW ME !! That what Dan Lev and I said was made up !!
Prove it !!!
You cant just go around accusing people of things without proof man but of course in your sick twisted world its justified because feelings and intentions matter more, right ?
All these little arguments we have that end the same way where you have nothing and I’ve cleaned your clock with actual statistics end the same way.
You lay on the ground like a little kid and kick and scream like some obnoxious brat in the store who cant get what he wants and you kick and scream “its true, its true !” and yet you have nothing to prove its true.
I have 64,000 references and you have one.
Pathetic.
“Charity is another matter. Again, very hard to sum up. The Catholics run the biggest charity in the world, but the money comes from all over the world and goes all over the world. Many charities are not really charities at all, but rather proselyzing mechanisms. Many charities are also pretty just just useless – same goes for direct foreign aid.”
Yes, whatever, if you’ll notice I didnt include it in the accounting, all I did was ask if you’d like to include it, its not included oin the total sum, so you’re wasting your energy.
“Toma, Bin Laden said all that stuff himself. If you’re impressed by the fact that I read the news once in a while, then boy would you be wowed by my magazine subscriptions!”
Said what stuff ?
Are you telling us that in 1996 he said he was doing this because of Bush ?
JMJ;
” a patsy. That’s why Bin Laden struck when he did.”
You have an actual transcript or recording of Bin laden saying this ??
You know this for a fact ??
I doubt it, I’ll bet you cant come up with one shred of anything to prove that Bin Laden set his timetable according to the Bush presidency.
They started the 911 project back in 96 as an attack that had to of taken at least 5 years to coordinate not knowing who would president at the time the plan was ready to go.
So, you’re trying to bullsh*t us into believing that the plan was not to be unleashed until the best patsy came along ?
And that BS is that if Bush wasnt a good enough patsy they then would of waited and unleashed this maybe on Obama ?? Hahahahahahaha, you’re a riot brother ! You’re right in there with the 911 truffers who think Bush planned 911 himself.
Oh my god, this is too funny.
I hope you realize that if we had an audience you’d probably be in a straight jacket by now being pumped full of thorozine and librium.
You’ve gone past despicable all the way to hillarious.
“that we would not be like the old European empires of the past”
Yea exactly Einstein !!!! Gee, you might want to run that line of idiocy past the original settlers as you show them what Obama is doing and see which one cracks you upside the head first just for saying something so do dumb.
“there’s one thing I know about conservatives – deep down inside, they hate the Founders and their trifling ideas.”
Yea, like running up a 10 trillion dollar deficit in 3 months flat and taxing men 100% while totally abandoning them on any representation but instead loaning them money as a method of extortion.
heh, they never would of got away with it but the scary part is that they even entertained the thought of trying something thats about as unconstitutional and fascist as it gets.
And trust me, I’m not all that proud of the cons that were going to vote in favor either. But the point that matters is that it was the dems brainstorm to go ahead and decide how a man gets taxed according to the methods his income was reached at.
Thats right there was the largest blatant leap over our constitution I have ever seen in my life that the founding fathers would of shot themselves in the head over if they saw .
Our founding fathers would be appaled to see half the crap you guys do too so knock off the display of patriotism by patronizing the founding fathers.
Most of them were Christians so what good were they anyway, right Jersey ?
Yea, only when it serves your purpose to make a point all of a sudden they’re not the crazy Christians anymore ?
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Toma, if you ever make it here I promise I’ll whip you up a lil somethin.
:-)
Toma, Hitler did not have tenticles spread far and wide – that’s why he invaded all Germany’s neighbors. WWI happened because Germany did not have the colonial empire that it’s neighbors had. Germany never had much of a colonial empire, which is one of the main reasons German expansionism was always such a terrible issue. Russia did have an empire, but it has since collapsed. It’s tenticles were mostly local, despite the myth of the “domino theory.” China does not have a colonial empire, it’s expansion being almost exclusively internal.
Iran and North Korea, especially North Korea, do NOT have the wealth and resources to EVER become serious colonial, military, expansive empires, any time in the foreseeable future, PERIOD. It’s the height pf dellusional paranoia to think otherwise. This dellusional paranoid – from the Cold War to the War on Terror – is the excuse the MIC uses to exist, and people like you eat it up. Like the radicals on the Arab Street, you buy into the Tin Foil Hat rhetoric of unwarranted fear of an existential threat that simply does NOT exist. Iran and North Korea are not and will probably never be an existential threat to America or most anywhere else. We simply have NO need for the most ridiculous military empire in the history of man.
Yes, it is human nature to want to rule the world, and it is also human nature to fear that everyone might be able to do it, but it is fundmental logic that dictates that not everyone can do it. We have to get past these dellusional, diversive fears, and start to think rationally about the world around us, or WE may very well become the greatest threat to humanity in history.
Micky, that whole projecting the budget over 5, 10, 20 years stuff is all just rhetorical nonsense. The congress passes a budget every year. Who the h@!! knows what the debt, deficit or budget will look like 9 years from now? Nobody. The GOP is talking out their collective anal cavity on that one. “10 trillion dollar deficit” my buttocks.
And please, give it up on the foreign aid argument already. Do you really like the taste of your foot that much?
Here’s what Bin Laden had to say about Bush and why they attacked America: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/bin.laden.transcript/
Jesus, man! Don’t you stay up on this stuff?
As for that “Christian” nonsense, our Founding Fathers founded a secular republic, Micky, not a Christian theocracy, not even a Christian nation. And certainly, with what we have seen from “conservative” rule – legalized gambling and usury, unjust warfare, a police state, mass wealth transfers to the rich, trade with poor oppressive junta states – you guys are about as Christian as your average Satanist.
JMJ
Okay, I’m tired of your lying, obfuscating, eluding to change the subject and distorting what I and others say.
You’re a dispicable person, and I will prove it.
After this I will no longer engage you because basically, you’re a liar.
I have gone to your links before and it was evident that you took it for grantite that I would not check as it turned out your source was inaccurate and all you did was edit out a selctive portion when the rest actually made my point. That is lying by omission of the facts.
And I will not dignify your presence with a response anymore unless you become man enough to apologize and admit that you make up scenarios that go totally against the purpose of conversing on these subjects.
You have made enough accusations of people that you cant prove and I will not be a part of such a low life existence anymore.
I have proven people wrong before and they admit it or just never say anything again.
But in your case you insult a man with good brains by saying his foot is in his mouth when everything points to it being you who is eating his feet.
I will not be a part of your fantasy world.
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“Micky, that whole projecting the budget over 5, 10, 20 years stuff is all just rhetorical nonsense. The congress passes a budget every year. Who the h@!! knows what the debt, deficit or budget will look like 9 years from now? Nobody. The GOP is talking out their collective anal cavity on that one. “10 trillion dollar deficit” my buttocks.”
Here is the first example I will use in displaying your inept ability to keep an honest conversation.
You are trying to convince me that the deficit will not be what the CBO says it will be in 9 years but instead you say that the GOP are the ones making this estimate/claim.
If I’m correct, the CBO is a non partisan dept designed to give projections aginst the presidents estimate so why do you inject the GOP as the ones makiing that estimate ?
Why do you say the GOP is talking out there butt when they did not produce that number ?
Did the GOP come up with that number ?
Is the CBO run my the GOP ?
Obviously not. This is an example of your obfuscating and disengenuous tactics ansd a sublime way of placing blame where it does not belong.
or you’re just loosing it
Second of all, you use the CBO to back your claim in saying that we have not spent more than 2 trillion in foreign aid, yet the CBOs numbers are “rhetorical” when they counter the deficit numbers you disagree with.
You use the CBO to your advantage when it works for you in the case with foreign aid being less than 2 trillion , but you say its rhetoric when it goes against you in the case with Obamas budget.
That my friend where I come from is called bullsh*t cherry picking and a childs game.
I myself will take the low estimate which is around 5.6 trillion and split the difference on the high of 9.6 trillion which is said to be too optimistic and go with around 7.6 trillion.
That my friend, even half of it is at least what our kids will of been skewered with by Obama.
Bushs deficit is NOTHING compared to that.
Obama has spent more than all presidents combined since Washington in three months.
Obama holds the record now.
Not Bush.
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On the Bin Laden argument.
You say that Bin Laden attacked when he did because he knew how Bush would react.
Your argument is flawed because “after the fact” is never credible in that we can say anything and only expect to be believed.
Much like you.
You give me a link to an article that was written two years after Bin Laden wrote his letter to America in which he never mentioned George Bush even once and gave at least 100 reasons why he attacked America and none of thse reasons were because of Geroge W Bush.
So now, you expect me and anyone else to bellieve that 3 years after the attack and 2 years after his first letter that he decided to attack because he knew how Bush woule react when he never says any of this previously ?
Its painfully evident that Osama was only trying to turn the peolpe against Bush or else he would of said something, anything about his wanting the Bush reaction you claim he wanted in his first letter.
As a matter of fact the only president he names is BILL CLINTON”
And nowhere does he mention Bush.
OBL;
“Who can forget your President Clinton’s immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he ‘made a mistake’, after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations? ”
Really, how do you expect any thinking man to accept a letter “after the fact” that was written 3 years after the attack as proof of what you claim ?
What does make sense is that Osama was playing off the anti sentiments the country had for Bush and trying to make it look as if it was Bush being the reason he attacked. Well… if he hadnt posted his “Letter to America” 2 years before that it would be believable.
YOU LOSE.
“And please, give it up on the foreign aid argument already. Do you really like the taste of your foot that much?”
Not after I’ve pulled it out of your a$$.
You have nothing of any reputable documentation to back your claim that we did not spend over 2 trillion in international aid while I have numerous sources alla claiming the same amount just slightly over 2 trillion.
Whats even more dishonest on your part is that you tried to imply that I was including faith based donations or that they had something to do with it.
I was not.
I simply asked if you would like me to include them because with or without them the stats show we cleared 2 trillion anyway.
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And here again, you shape shift the context of the discussion.
I nener argued anything about us beinga theocracy or a Christian nation.
What I said instead was to let you know that our founding fathers were Christians whom you praise at some times but then turn around and call looney, insane and whatever verbal goodies you have lined up like at the bottom of the following paragraph you call us “Satanist”
With permiison from Eric I would like to ask you to go f&*K yourself.
Calling otherwise decent people satanist, representatives of evil is despicable when the majority of us are no such thing
“As for that “Christian” nonsense, our Founding Fathers founded a secular republic, Micky, not a Christian theocracy, not even a Christian nation. And certainly, with what we have seen from “conservative” rule – legalized gambling and usury, unjust warfare, a police state, mass wealth transfers to the rich, trade with poor oppressive junta states – you guys are about as Christian as your average Satanist.”
In the face of all the facts I’ve shown you for 2 years now you have yet to ever once acknowledge the truth but intstead finish conversations with your typical childish rants that go on about other peoples intelligence or sanity and it really gets you nowhere.
The “satanist” remark was the last straw.
I refuse any longer to be drawn into these ridiculous arguments with an over grown child who lies and insults good peoples intelligence by demaning their intelligence and with arrogance and condescending language calling them names when they wont accept his opinion as the truth.
It would be one thing if the arguments were ever productive in reaching a conclusion as to what the best course of action would be to resolve a problem but instead they always end up representing what a fool you are, and me as well for engaging you
.