The world is on fire.
Let me say this again real slowly so that liberals can follow along.
The…world…is…on…fire.
While this is going on, liberals are planning to get to the “root causes” of terrorism.
I never thought that a movie about a comic book character would sum up something as complicated as terrorism so perfectly, but I recommend that every person on Earth watch the 2008 “Batman” movie.
When others are trying to understand terrorism, Michael Caine as Alfred the Butler offers quiet wisdom. He understands why terrorists do what they do.
“Some people just like to watch the world burn.”
That is it. Every PHD in Sociology can now go find something else to do.
There are no “reasons” why some people do bad things. Some people, to quote rocker George Thorogood, are just “bad to the bone.” Continuing with the Thorogood train, some people are just “born to be bad.”
Why did Willie Sutton rob banks? Because that is where the money is.
Why did the guy climb the mountain? Because it was there.
Why do terrorists blow stuff up? Because they feel like it. They enjoy it. It is a hobby for them. It is the same reason some children burn ants with magnifying glasses or put birds in microwaves.
Water is wet, and sadists are sadistic.
Before going any further, many in the media have already decided that a girl on Spring Break in Aruba or a losing Presidential candidate accepting a meaningless job are more important than the fact that terrorists are engulfing innocent citizens of the world in balls of flames. Therefore, rather than look to Deepak Chopra or Deepak Kalpoe for anything about anything, below are some links from people that actually know things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHeB81BbuYU
http://www.slate.com/id/2205710/
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTM1Y2MyZjMwZTM1ZmM2N2Y5ODdmZWNjMWFkYjZiM2Q=
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809544395968075.html
Between Ralph Peters, Christopher Hitchens, and the geniuses at the Wall Street Journal, there is hope. Unfortunately, this glimmer of sanity gets drowned out in an ocean of idiocy.
Deepak Chopra is Billy Mays with an accent. Instead of selling home products, he sells new age gobbledygook. Only Larry King could consider his opinion on terrorism to be one of expertise.
I was raised in New York. I watch football. Therefore, I should be the Head Coach of the New York Giants. Who needs Tom Coughlin, just because he won the Super Bowl with them last year? I have 28 years of armchair quarterbacking experience.
For those who find that argument weak, we have a media that thinks the big story of the day is that some woman who married a successful politician but failed on her own was given a job that contributes nothing. She has 35 years of experience, which means that she graduated law school at age 25 and is now 60.
Personally I am delighted that Hill-Dawg is Secretary of State. The feminists can now cheer that the man got the CEO job and the woman became a secretary. How traditional. What matters is what does not matter. What does not matter is the Secretary of State. Hillary is out of the Senate. New York no longer has to fear becoming a banana republic with her as Governor.
Unlike the Secretary of Defense, who has to save lives, Secretaries of State engage in “diplomacy,” which is code for having tea parties and accomplishing nothing. Worthless phrases such as “tough diplomacy,” and “aggressive diplomacy,” are code words for fancy dinner parties at five star restaurants to decry world hunger and poverty. John Kerry or Al Gore could have bored the enemy to death, but instead Hillary could just nag them to death. After all, men will do whatever it takes to stop a woman from shrieking.
Oh no, wait a sec. That is in America, where we have free speech. In Arab Muslim countries, the women that nag just get shot to death. Other offenses that get women shot to death include speaking and breathing.
Hillary has already failed before being sworn in. Her speech today spoke about how we need to move beyond force. Apparently the terrorists seem to be doing quite well with the force approach. We might wish to fight fire with superior fire.
True, Hillary could emulate Nancy Pelosi, put on a burkha, and sip tea with Bashar Assad. That worked out real well. I mean he has renounced violence, and promised to be more understanding.
Oh no, wait again. That would be Congressional demotards. They can’t support a single worthwhile military mission, but they can issue resolutions on whether or not their visit with Armageddonijad should be centered around Mint Medley or Earl Gray. Liberals will understand the use of military force the day Islamofacist terrorists have their children Bar Mitzvahed.
It is not about poverty. Osama Bin Laden inherited 300 million dollars.
It is not about the United States. We are not located anywhere near India, or Madrid, or Bali.
It is not about Israel. There are only 1,000 Jews in Mumbai, and 10,000 Jews in all of India.
It is not about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It is about a radical Islamic culture of violence that has existed for 1400 years.
America is told by pious liberals that we should consider another approach besides force. How about the terrorists try another approach besides murder? Why is nothing demanded of them?
America gets criticized for subjecting Muslim prisoners to hijinks one would see in the fraternity movie “Animal House.” ACLU liberals wring their hands over the equivalent of a college fraternity hazing while Jews and Christians, as well as moderate Muslims, get blown to bits trying to enter a pizza shack or a nightclub.
The only solution is to let the liberals get their wishes against their will. We should give them what they want until they realize they no longer want it.
Liberals love multilateralism. They think we need to be more humble. They are also against Americans using coercive interrogation techniques, preferring to ask nicely.
Therefore, we should turn the genocidal lunatics over to the foreign governments that we know, but pretend not to know, will beat the tar out of them. After all, to try and convince India, Pakistan, or other nations not to waterboard somebody would be America bullying another nation.
Rather than argue about Guantanamo Bay, we can deport the terrorists to the most brutal regimes that support us, and wash our hands. When the brutality “leaks,” conservatives can express shock and outrage while privately high-fiving.
Or we can be honest and loudly state that we are not here to have tea parties.
The only successful diplomatic missions that liberals have ever engaged in have been the ones that accomplished nothing. Even conservatives benefit when diplomatic movements lead to wonderful photos, good food, and status quo. Think Annapolis for a perfect example of a useless meeting that succeeded wildly by leading to nothing.
The stock market crashed almost 700 points today. Liberals are crying that we must “do something.” No we must not. The same applies for foreign policy. Don’t do something unless it is going to be done right.
Those that keep insisting that only political solutions will work do not understand the military or politics.
Until we trust Ralph Peters over Deepak Chopra, the problems will continue.
We do not need to sit down with animals. We need to kill them and use them to feed the likable animals at the San Diego Zoo.
Good people are burning. The world is failing to protect them. Good people need to support military actions by democracies. Those democracies must have the courage to use it. When we see militants gathering at a funeral, we have to eliminate them all, rather than let some nonsensical cultural norms allow them to walk away.
The death penalty prevents repeat offenders. When terrorists have their own villages razed, their own families executed, and their own plans forcibly disrupted, things will be better. Will this change their hearts? Who cares? The goal is to defeat them, not get them to behave.
Liberals will issue pious speeches about the tragedy in India. Then they will follow up their speeches with more speeches. These are the same people that change the ribbons on their shirts more than they change their underclothing. I believe burnt sienna ribbons show solidarity with “Lesbian Vegans for Libya.”
It is time to stop talking and actually do something.
President Bush leaves office soon. There are no consequences to anything he does that he will have to deal with. His successor will cope.
Until then, Dubya needs to quietly work with India, help them find the monsters that committed the most recent atrocities, and help burn their entire villages to the ground.
Collateral damage? I will sleep like a baby knowing terrorists are dead.
No more dialogue. No more tea parties. No more anti-American and anti-Semitic U.N. resolutions.
We talked. They murdered. The liberals dithered.
If liberals want to be liked, they should just talk to each other. After all, they are the only people who listen to them.
Terrorists don’t like us. They will not listen. They only understand brute force.
Terrorists want to die. We should happily oblige every last murderous zealot.
Liberals will spend the next century not learning, not understanding, and not accomplishing.
Given their short attention spans, I will again remind them why terrorists do what they do.
They like watching the world burn.
India does not need platitudes from Dipstick Hopeless. It needs American solidarity.
We will kill terrorists, and turn over the ones we capture to India provided they promise to use brutality against them. Don’t worry if we publicly criticize. Like most American diplomacy, it will not mean a thing.
eric
Eric,
Great analysis! Unfortunately as you pointed out, there are too many people in the world who are so caught up in their world of moral relativism that they can’t just see that some people want us dead no matter what we do. No matter who we elect, what foreign policies we adopt, what trade agreements we make or what concessions we give, tehy will still want us dead.
These are the same people that blame Israel for defending themselves against their fanatical neighbors. In their mind Gaza’s failure isn’t due to the inability of the region to govern itself efefctively but in Isreal’s defense of its citizen’s.
On 01/21/2009 there are going to be a lot of dissapointed people in the world, when they find that terrorism just didn’t go away because we elected Obama to the White House.
Ugh, I can’t stand how you guys assume that I assume the above.
It’s ridiculous, it’s irresponsible, and it’s dead wrong.
So stop just spouting ignorance because you’re upset about who won the Presidency.
I think the most relevant movie (And soon book, I’m going to grab the book after my sister is done) is Charlie Wilson’s War.
If you plant the seeds of education within piss-poor countries, if you plant the seeds of opportunity, you’ll find these radical asshats just disappear.
They will strike hard, they will do everything within their power to destroy any opportunity or gift that may be possible (Young man owning his own shop in the future, or a girl going to school), however, a citizen’s resolve I could argue is stronger than a Terrorist’s.
A terrorist will kill him or herself simply to stop a movement, to push their extreme ideals, but his or her victims will always pick themselves out of the rubble and rebuild. There is a lot of hatred in this world, always has been, but the important point is the keep demonstrating that there are alternatives.
I don’t say not to use force, Pakistan and Afghanistan, in my opinion should have gotten the Iraq treatment years and years ago, hopefully there is still something that can be done.
oh and Eric –
The death penalty prevents repeat offenders. When terrorists have their own villages razed, their own families executed, and their own plans forcibly disrupted, things will be better. Will this change their hearts? Who cares? The goal is to defeat them, not get them to behave.
That is purely disgusting. Are you serious? What are you, some Somali Warlord trying to teach someone a lesson? Are we not a country based on higher values? That we would never stoop to the terrorist’s level? We aren’t gaining enemies because we look weak, we’re gaining them because we think that destroying a child’s family will somehow cause him not to grow up resenting America.
It’s sad, maybe one thing I did hope for on Election night was for everyone to wake up and see the world as it is.
I thought that our citizen’s were some of the most religious and spiritual, but it’s comments like that from more conservative people that really, REALLY throw doubt into my mind that we are a righteous country. That we will always take a higher road.
And you know what? This, I can see, is going to turn into India’s problem. The country is home to 100 million muslims. Many of said muslims have been looked down upon and are simply there because they lacked the means necessary to leave for Pakistan when most intelligent/not-poor muslims left India. Well, you take 100 million piss poor muslims in a country where they are a minority, where they have been treated as 2nd class citizens – well. You find resentment, you find hatred, you find 10 guys willing to act.
So yeah, let’s kill all radicals, let’s threaten to bomb villages, let’s attack the Democrats because you know, if there’s an attack in a country somewhere in the world, WE HAVE TO INVOLVE OURSELVES DIRECTLY IN KILLING SOMETHING IN RETALIATION.
Right? Is that what this nation was founded on? On the direct and forceful retribution? Please. I understand that there are many out there that are angry, but just burning villages isn’t going to do anything. That strategy is old, tired, and does NOT work. You will end up with 10x the hatred and probably find many Radicals writing almost exactly what you are –
Muslim leaders are afraid to attack these infidels.
We must do something to show we aren’t afraid.
We must murder all we can and not care about collateral damage.
Don’t become them, rise above the terrorists. We, as Americans, hold ourselves to a higher standard – don’t forget that.
All you said can be summed up with one sentence: The heart of man is wicked. Look in the Scriptures to read that—has anything changed from the days when David was king? Or before that? Cain killed Abel. He was jealous that God favoured Abel over himself. Jacob stole Esau’s birthright. “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Do we understand this? No. There are so many things that we don’t understand. People do evil things, murder and torture. Yes, there are “good” people in the world and I pray that good will overcome evil, but it certainly seems that the bad guys are winning. I agree with you that Deepak Chopra has a way of fooling people into his “everyone is beautiful” philosophy.
When I read that the Israeli victims of the Mumbai terrorist attack had been tortured before they died, I felt ill. I cried. I have been bothered by this and had nightmares—-I have been on numerous vacations overseas, in Southeast Asia and elsewhere, and felt quite safe. But no more. Our world has changed perceptively and keeps changing, getting worse instead of better.
When the world wakes up to what exactly radical Islam is and what its intent is, then we can all fight it. But the world has to wake up first, take off the iPOD’s, realise what is important and what isn’t. Walid Shoebat was once a terrorist, but is no more because he had a revelation. He realised that what he had been doing was wrong. Unfortunately many of these terrorists are so deeply brainwashed from birth to hate and destroy human life that hoping they will have a change of heart is like hoping that it won’t rain during the monsoon.
There has to be more awareness of what exactly terrorism is and why we need to be vigilant. The enemies of what is good and right are all around us, and we will only win if we stomp out this enemy rather than make small talk with them. An enemy is an enemy, not a tea-time friend.
Please Eric; feeding the wonderful animals at the San Diego Zoo trash like that would only give them a very bad case of diarrhea.
Now that we have that bit of trivia out of the way… One thing that I have learned over the years is that terrorist’s of all stripes, be they Lawyers, Zeta’s, or Jihadist’s, is that pure unadulterated force is the only thing that they respect or understand. We cannot count on attrition to win this fight. After all, it is not bin Ladin that straps on a bomb belt but AQ has thousands of people that are more than willing to do that. As does Hamas and all the rest of these fanatical organizations. Talk means nothing to them, so Hillary will mean nothing to them.
Just last evening the AP reported that some damned think tank says that the U.S. needs to prepare for some kind of WMD attach within the next five years. They must have had their collective heads stuck up each others … We, in Emergency Services have been preparing. All across the country. Do we talk about it openly, other than an occasional blurb on the evening news? No, it is called operational security. Does more need to be done? Certainly, this will be a never ending task. Will table topping exercises do the job? Nope, that is akin to political negotiations. You have to get dirty to find out what works.
We will have to get dirty when it comes to playing with terrorist’s. I have been dealing with them on a personal basis since at least 1970. My experience in those dealings leads me to believe that what smokinjoe proposes leads to unadulterated disaster. There isn’t a pathway to anyone’s heart or mind when they are filled with fanatical hate.
“Don’t become them, rise above the terrorists. We, as Americans, hold ourselves to a higher standard – don’t forget that.”
Yea, instead of killing a couple hundred at a time, like they do innocents, we should aim to kill thousands of them, and their dogs, and whomever has the good fortune of deciding to harbor or disguise their whereabouts.
Your post makes Erics and my case for us.
“If you plant the seeds of education within piss-poor countries, if you plant the seeds of opportunity, you’ll find these radical asshats just disappear.”
Since when has this proven to be true ?
Bin Laden did not give birth to his movement out of poverty or lack of education. As a matter of fact it was that higher level of education and funding that carried his movement to where it is.
He was not a victim of some village ravaged by animalistic American forces. he was a spoon fed trust baby that was fed an ideoligy coming thru the ranks of middle eastern and European education systems.
“This, I can see, is going to turn into India’s problem.”
Since when “was is not” Indias problem ?
Its the other way around my friend.
These spineless inept wonders will end up making it our problem. (as reflected in Deepaks statements on FOX yesterday)
“Its all Americas fault”
“The country is home to 100 million muslims. Many of said muslims have been looked down upon and are simply there because they lacked the means necessary to leave for Pakistan when most intelligent/not-poor muslims left India. Well, you take 100 million piss poor muslims in a country where they are a minority, where they have been treated as 2nd class citizens – well. You find resentment, you find hatred, you find 10 guys willing to act.”
You’re wrong.
None of these 10 attackers were from India and they most certainly didnt do what they did on behalf of any of Indias muslims.
They were targeting anyhting that harbored or represented western culture.
Hotels, rest/clubs/transportation.
The collateral damage for them, the icing on the cake if you will, is that this will stir up more tensions between Pakistan and India.
These radicals are a product of northern Afghanistan training camps and have little regard for the future of Pakistan or India as they would love to see two countries with nuclear arsenals clean each other off the map.
The radical muslim doctrine calls for muslims to bring on the end times as expeditiously as possible. Getting two nuke powers to clash is a good start. Their deaths along with the deaths of millions is an honorable thing that they believe will be worshiped in future generations for bringing on what they believe will be the ultimate cleansing.
These monsters take their doctrine almost directly from Nazi Germanys handbook. That is what we are up against. (AGAIN!!!)
We and the Russians did not sit down and talk with Nazi Germany, we cleaned their clocks untill their was nothing left of them but a few rag tag organizations we see today that are actually nothing more than a bunch of meth head trailer park tattoed racists.
Thats right, a good ass kicking is the only thing thats going to stop this movement.
It works like this.
When these monsters decide to change their ways, then we will go in and instill the seeds of education, helping them rise above third world status that you and so many liberals and terrorist say is a result of and Americas fault.
But we will not let their last motivating acts of terrorism be the catalyst that propels us unto any kind of cooperation or commitment to help improve upon their social structures or infrastaructures.
The moderate muslims, the general populations of these countries and the governments are the ones who must step up to the plate and in the interest of their own countries do what they must to weed out and kill these radical movements.
Unfortunatly it doesnt seem like we will see that happen anytime soon.
If history, recent history is any clue as to whether or not we count on these guys to do what needs to be done we can pretty much forget about it.
Liberals and … well just liberals really, wont be able to, and maybe not even then, be able to see the enemy for what its is until millions die once again simply for their beliefs or lack of certain genes.
“A terrorist will kill him or herself simply to stop a movement, to push their extreme ideals, but his or her victims will always pick themselves out of the rubble and rebuild.”
WTF ???
3000 dead peole buried under the towers couldnt really pick themselves out of that one, could they ?
What the hell ??
Why let it happen in the first place ?
Is that what we do ? Wait , be attacked, only so we can demonstrate what great resolve we have in hopes of changing the terrorists mind ?
“The death penalty prevents repeat offenders. When terrorists have their own villages razed, their own families executed, and their own plans forcibly disrupted, things will be better. Will this change their hearts? Who cares? The goal is to defeat them, not get them to behave.”
Yea well, if a few terrorists bombing trains in Spain can get a whole country to turn on a dime and act like sheep and elect a government favorable to the radicals, then there surely must be something a great country like ours can do to convince thr radicals that they as well can be coerced.
Watching your fellow terrorists buddies heads roll down the street is probably a good motivator.
————————————————————————————–
Yea Eric, I saw(heard) that moron Deepak on FOX yesterday.
If you noticed everyone was silent in amazement at the stupidity coming from this guys mouth, in Vancouver of course.
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – Web Reconnaissance for 12/02/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.
http://thunderrun.blogspot.com/2008/12/web-reconnaissance-for-12022008.html
Urgent Reading…
https://tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/12/india-burns-liberals-plan-tea-parties/
Read and weep for the inactivity that is coming.
…
Here we go with Batman again. Like I always say: Conservatives live in a comic-book universe.
There is always a reason for everything. This is a fundamental law of the universe. All things, living or inanimate, organic or inorganic, human or giant squid, are bound by this law. Everything that happens – everything that doesn’t happen, happens or doesn’t happen because something makes it happen or not happen. Anyone who believes that anything or anyone acts or reacts out of pure spontaneity, without reascn or cause, does not understand themselves or the real universe around them.
The only people who “just like to watch the world burn” are pathological arsonists, and even they have a reason, albeit not a sane one, for what they do.
If you operate unde the assumption that things happen for no reason, you are operating under a false assumption and all you abstract from that will most likely be wrong and you will be unsuccessful in dealing with said things. If you operate under the assumption that all things happen for a reason, you will try to find the reason and will be more likely successful dealing with it.
This is why conservatism most always fails. Conservatism makes assumptions bases on false premises: Terrorists act without reason, reactionary violence is always the correct reaction to actionary violence. Time and time again these assumptions are proven wrong, and yet conservatives, always putting ideology ahead of reality, operate under those same wrong assumptions. The same is true of economics, trade, social sanctions, and on and on. I can’t think of one single conservative intiative or reaction that has been successful. Not one. The reason? When you believe things that make no sense you will not be able to make sensible decisions.
Let’s hope cooler, smarter and more realistic heads prevail in this matter. From the looks of it, Canada has just cast off it’s conservative rule, so there’s one more cooler head in the room. Let’s hope for more.
JMJ
“Here we go with Batman again. Like I always say: Conservatives live in a comic-book universe.”
Its just a comparative anaology of sorts. Since you once analogized terrorists to be “unruly children” I suggest you stop critisizing anyone elses views on how these guys think.
If thats the route you want to go I would suggest that you live in a pre scool sand box universe.
“If you operate unde the assumption that things happen for no reason, you are operating under a false assumption and all you abstract from that will most likely be wrong and you will be unsuccessful in dealing with said things.”
Eric understands how these monsters got to the mindset they hold.
Your attempt to paint him as somehow ignorant to to the makings of a terrorist mind is cheap and disengenuous to say the least since he did acknowledge the begginings of this mindset starting as far back as 1400 years ago.
Black Tygrrr;
“It is about a radical Islamic culture of violence that has existed for 1400 years.”
The mindset has been bred to a breed that today is not to be dealt or reasoned with. That is the point.
“The only people who “just like to watch the world burn” are pathological arsonists, and even they have a reason, albeit not a sane one, for what they do.”
If you’re going to take cheap shots like that then its safe to say that a good portion of these terrorists are pathological arsonists since most of their destruction and eath is caused by fire of many sorts.
A few thousand gallons of jet fuel on 911 might be you first clue, ever.
“Conservatism makes assumptions bases on false premises”
Another stinking full of crap lie.
I’ll refer you to the bullsh*t behind global warming if you want to talk about false premises.
Three thousand dead Americans and every other attack on in history is a false premise ?
Your assertion of false premises is whats false, delusional and quite frankly downright stupid, naive, and dangerous.
You really need to update your talking points, they’re old and have been defeated many times by yours truly and any conservative who even read a newspaper in the last month.
Plus, you should step up to the plate and be a little (lot) more honest in your use of others peoples statements and words instead of this high schoolish selective out of context cherry picking you resort to.
I’ve actually seen you be smarter.
Maybe your case is weakening so bad that these ridiculous childish measures of reataliation or rebuttal is all you’ve got left.
————————————————————————————-
P. Sperry;
“Just last evening the AP reported that some damned think tank says that the U.S. needs to prepare for some kind of WMD attach within the next five years.”
Yea Patrick, I saw that too.
Pardon my valley girl grammar but I was like “DUH”? Really ?
Didnt we make up our mind about 7 years ago to focus on this possibilty ?
Maybe we should be listening to Joe Biden and actually have a little more focus on this during the first 6 months of an Obama presidency ?
I agree in no more dialogue with terrorists. What’s the point of treating them like humans when they act like anything but and are anti-life? Why give them a platform to spew their hate and get more haters to join their bandwagon? That’s like telling your dog to go get the mail for you and wondering why he doesn’t understand what you tell him. THey don’t understand words, only guns and instead of using guns we try to change them.
Well written Eric as always.
The only language terrorists can comprehend is that of force.
“So stop just spouting ignorance because you’re upset about who won the Presidency.”
You’re assuming we’re pissed that Obama won the presidency. Nothing could be further from the truth. Obama won and he will be president and as an American it is my patriotic duty to support him. Unlike the left wing nut jobs who spouted hate and vitriolic refuse against Bush. The next four years will be interesting.
“If you plant the seeds of education within piss-poor countries, if you plant the seeds of opportunity, you’ll find these radical asshats just disappear.”
The Saudis are doing this as we speak. Guess what? They’re not going away. In fact they’re trying to destroy efforts to educate because ignorance breeds terrorism.
“The death penalty prevents repeat offenders.”
No, it still takes too long to execute someone. Even after they’ve exhausted all repeals.
“These monsters take their doctrine almost directly from Nazi Germanys handbook. That is what we are up against. (AGAIN!!!)
We and the Russians did not sit down and talk with Nazi Germany, we cleaned their clocks untill their was nothing left of them but a few rag tag organizations we see today that are actually nothing more than a bunch of meth head trailer park tattoed racists.”
No, sorry. This is a terrible comparison. The terrorists we’re dealing with have a whole different book they’re reading from, and it’s worst.
We did talk with Germany. Again and again as they took land. We made concessions with them and they kept on breaking their agreements. Then when we actually saw that they had no intentions of stopping that’s when we cleaned their clocks. We should have cleaned their clocks when they made their first invasion.
You’re comparing today’s terrorists with yesterday’s Nazis. However Germany was a nation and very easy to pinpoint where the fuss was coming from. Now we’re fighting an entity with no nation, no government, and NO RULES. The Nazis wore uniforms and were quite easy to discern. The terrorists look like civilians. Good luck in flushing them out without hurting innocents.
In most cases when an innocent bystander is hurt from us hunting them down. If we can we pick them up and say we’re sorry. That’s something that the terrorists can’t say they do. Why? Because they don’t care.
Why don’t they care? Because some people just like to watch the world burn.
Bishop.
The point I’m, making is that today’s radical Muslim movement wants exactly the same results that Nazi Germany strived for. The only difference is that its radical Muslims performing the acts of annihilating anything not Muslim.
The ideology of today’s radical Muslim movement is taken “directly” from WW 2 Nazi doctrine.
This is fact.
http://www.moralgroup.com/NewsItems/Islam/p20.htm.
Hitler’s mein kampf has been a Best Seller in Arab/Muslim countries and entities?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1388161/Mein-Kampf-for-sale,-in-Arabic.html
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Mohammad Amin al-Husayni was a Nazi and an ally of Hitler.
Hezbullah uses the outstretched arm, Nazi style salute even today.
Google Images “Hezbollah Nazi salute” for evidence.
Radical Islam is most definitely an extension of Naziism.
Thank you for correcting me on our communications with WW2 Nazis which did fail. This still reiterates the fact that talks with evil just don’t work.
“In most cases when an innocent bystander is hurt from us hunting them down. If we can we pick them up and say we’re sorry. That’s something that the terrorists can’t say they do. Why? Because they don’t care.”
Not to mention that unlike the terrorists, at least we make attempts to avoid collateral casualties.
“(Batman’s) just a comparative anaology of sorts. Since you once analogized terrorists to be “unruly children””
I get the analogy, Micky. I happen to think it’s silly. My analogy of terrorists to unruly children was in reference to how to deal with “negative attention:” That you shouldn’t reward negative behavior with negative attention. In Eric’s analogy, terrorists are comic-bookish villians who act without cause and should be punished without law. I think that’s a counter-productive and immature attitude.
“Eric understands how these monsters got to the mindset they hold.”
How on Earth would Eric understand such a thing? He’s a product of middle class America. He hasn’t a clue in the universe why these people do the things they do. Neither do I. Neither do you. But I know this much: comic-bookish simplifications rarely get you anywhere near real understanding.
“Black Tygrrr;
“It is about a radical Islamic culture of violence that has existed for 1400 years.””
And this statement here is proof of how little he does know about the subject. While Christian were living like rabid dogs in the woods of Dark Ages Europe, Islamic peoples flourished abd advanced in peace. Anyone who knopws anything about history knows Erics statement is incorrect.
“I’ll refer you to the bullsh*t behind global warming if you want to talk about false premises.”
I’ll take the word of a majority of relevent scientists over you, Micky.
TaliT,
“I agree in no more dialogue with terrorists.”
No more? When did we even start in the first place?
“Why give them a platform to spew their hate and get more haters to join their bandwagon?”
Good question. I’ve been asking neocons this for years. Yet the insipid GWOT goes on, and the platform gets bigger and bigger.
Bishop,
“The only language terrorists can comprehend is that of force.”
Now there’s an original thought! Gee, where’d ya’ hear that from? Limbaugh? O’Rielly? GWB? Wow. I never heard that before!
They “understand” just fine, Bishop. In fact, most terrorists are more educated than most Americans. It seems we’re the ones who don;t “understand.” The trouble is that when we do understand we don’t like what we see. What the terrorists want is unacceptable. How to deal with them probably is a matter of “force” and “guns” – but not war. Terrorists are nothing but international organized criminals. They should be dealt with as such. They should not be treated as warring states, as that only elevates there status, which is exactly what they want and we don’t want them to have. They should be dealt with quietly and covertly, diplomatically and with international law enforcement and intelligence.
“These monsters take their doctrine almost directly from Nazi Germanys handbook. That is what we are up against. (AGAIN!!!)”
Ridiculous. No one who knows anything about history would make such a ludicrous comparison. Conservatives need to read more history and watch less Fox. The “Nazis” were the ruling party of the one of the worlds most formidible and aggressive nations in history. Their military was at one time the most advanced on the planet. There was a distinct possibility they would take all of Europe as their own empire and for a time almost made that so. The rolled over nations like steamrollers over pine cones. They massacred 6 million Jews, milllions of others, and were directly the cause of 50 million deaths. They had the popular support of the German people, the tacit support of the church, and high regard among millions of other Europeans, Americans, and others. They were an economic powerhouse, with tremendous growth, infrastructural development, and the most advanced propaganda machine up to that point in history. Never in the history of the West and beyond had there ever been a greater threat to freedom and democracy. Never. Only the nuclear age ushered in a threat even close, but the MAD doctrine almost negates it’s most horrific possibilities. To compare Nazi Germany with the militant fundamentalist movement is innane at best, counter-productively misguided at worst. Ridiculous.
JMJ
I get the analogy, Micky. I happen to think it’s silly. My analogy of terrorists to unruly children was in reference to how to deal with “negative attention:”
Just as silly to call murder “negative attention”
“That you shouldn’t reward negative behavior with negative attention.”
Yea. lets just drop a bunch of prozac over Norther Pakistan ?
Lost, delusional, ridiculous. When people attack and kill thousands of your citizens you let them know that its not acceptable bt returning the same.
In Eric’s analogy, terrorists are comic-bookish villians who act without cause and should be punished without law. I think that’s a counter-productive and immature attitude.”
Like photoshopping red devil horns onto Bush. (You made your own comics, remember?)
“How on Earth would Eric understand such a thing? He’s a product of middle class America. He hasn’t a clue in the universe why these people do the things they do. Neither do I. Neither do you. But I know this much: comic-bookish simplifications rarely get you anywhere near real understanding.”
Aww Jersey, now you’re just being an ***hole.
Any schmuck can pick up a book and read back to the origins and reasons for a groups motivation.
(I wasnt calling you a schmuck Eric)
“Black Tygrrr;
“It is about a radical Islamic culture of violence that has existed for 1400 years.””
“And this statement here is proof of how little he does know about the subject. While Christian were living like rabid dogs in the woods of Dark Ages Europe, Islamic peoples flourished abd advanced in peace. Anyone who knopws anything about history knows Erics statement is incorrect. ”
No, its correct, going back to the Barbary Pirates who were stealing European ships and the passengers using them in slave labor is a good place to start.
Please, S T O P L Y I N G !!!!!!!!
“I’ll refer you to the bullsh*t behind global warming if you want to talk about false premises.”
I’ll take the word of a majority of relevent scientists over you, Micky.
There “word” and the facts are two different stories.
The fact of the matter is that there is no consncus , only amongst scientist funded by those with an interest in productions to be had from GW.
Besides that, to be on topic.
Dead Americans and numerous terror attacks are NOT “false premises”.
“To compare Nazi Germany with the militant fundamentalist movement is innane at best, counter-productively misguided at worst. Ridiculous. ”
Say what you want, its only an opinion.
I have “FACTS” to back my statements up.
You have nothing but bla bla bla
BLA
You were educated on this once before.
So spare me the redundancy of your attention span, or whatever elsae “I” would like to call it.
Micky said;
October 22nd, 2008 at 6:06 pm
http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/musnazi.html
“Our Fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world”
-Grand Mufti of Palestine 1930’s
Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini
————————————————————————————-
Support for Nazism was not limited to the former Mufti. Here are some quotes from Arab leaders on Hitler, and Nazism:
————————————————————————————-
“We admired the Nazis. We were immersed in reading Nazi literature and books . . . . We were the first who thought of [an Arab] translation of Mein Kampf. Anyone who lived in Damascus at that time was witness to the Arab inclination toward Nazism,” recalled Sami al-Joundi, one of the founders of Syria’s ruling Ba’ath Party.
————————————————————————————–
Indeed, a popular WWII song was heard in the Middle East featuring words: Bissama Allah, oria alard Hitler – in heaven Allah, on earth Hitler. Picking up the theme of the book, posters were put up in Arab markets and elsewhere proclaiming, “In heaven Allah is thy ruler; on earth Adolph Hitler.”
————————————————————————————–
John Gunther of Inside Asia reported: “The greatest contemporary Arab hero is probably Hitler.”
————————————————————————————-
JERSEY !
Not only can I compare them to each other and not buy into your sensitivities I can put them together leaving no doubt that you’re wrong about telling any Jew to “lighten up” when it comes to the ones on the right that are painted as the same monsters that killed millions of their own people.
JMJ thank you for making a better point as far as comparing the Nazis with the doctrine of the terrorists of today. However in light of M2’s link to Mein Kampf in Arabic, he does make a point. The sale of the book in Arabic is a shocking trend indeed. However Hitler was known to use a people as a tool for a means to an end. If Hitler would have succeeded I wonder how the Muslims in the brotherhood would have fared. Would Hitler have turned his attention and pension for eradication to them once they have served their purpose?
” wonder how the Muslims in the brotherhood would have fared.”
Not well at all, thats the irony.
Just as many Americans, like Jersey, who sympathize with our enemies dont realize that regardless of their positions the terrorist will kill them just as quickly as anyone else.
All this nonsense of adopting a more peaceful solution is euphoric drooling coming from wishful thinking ideological skulls whom no matter what the evidence maintain that we are wrong.
When documented real attacks and deaths are called “negative attention” theres nothing I can say that wouldnt get edited off this page.
maybe except to say that these people who think this way are quite possibly just as dangerous as an enabler giving money to a drunk.
Micky,
“Just as silly to call murder “negative attention””
?
I don’t think you get the analogy. Allow me to try one last time. In my analogy, the terrorists are the bad “children” looking for negative attention from the “parents” (first world nations with international interests there). The “child” does bad things to get the “parents” to pay “negative attention” to them. The “child” ants attention. Period. And if it’s easier or preferable to get that attention by doing something bad rather than something good, they’ll do the bad thing. All parents have seen this in action, especially among very young children or rebelious adolescents (child breaks or steals things for no apparent reason, teenage daughter dates long-haired “bad boys” etc).
The terrorists want attention. They want to be considered important players on the international scene. They want respect, albeit through fear, and gravitas. They want to unite the Muslim world against a common enemy. It didn’t really even matter who the enemy was, as long as it was seemingly formidible enough to strike people as truly an existential threat. America made the perfect patsy in this endeavor. We’ve done the same thing before.
When you look at our history, especially our early history, whenever there was a threat of popular uprising or insurrection, the US government would invent some new enemy against which we would unite to defeat. The Spanish-American war was begun for exactly this reason. The Cold War served a similar purpose but was arguably more for the sake of spending money on an entrenched military industrial complex.
So, the terrorists get the unifying enemy they want, and we get the unifying enemy our government wants. OBL knew this and played his hand perfectly. It’s a shame that Americans were dumb enough to fall for it, again.
“No, its (“It is about a radical Islamic culture of violence that has existed for 1400 years”) correct, going back to the Barbary Pirates who were stealing European ships and the passengers using them in slave labor is a good place to start.
That was only a couple hundred years ago, Micky. 1400 years? you guys are seriously going to contend that the Islamic world has been nothing more than a squirming pile of barabarity over the entirety of its history? C’mon. Get real. Like I said, when Christendom was wallowing in the Dark Ages, Islamic culture flourished in relative peace and prosperity. History moves through regions in cycles. You just ca’t make a simplistic assertion like “It is about a radical Islamic culture of violence that has existed for 1400 years.” It simply isn’t true and anyone with even a perochial knowledge of world history would know that.
As for the Nazis and Islamic fundamentalism the only similarity is the baiting of the Jewish people. It’s disgusting, but it’s as far as the comparison goes. Islamic fundamentalists simply do not have the power to do what the Nazis did. Period.
Bishop,
I’ve read Mein Kampf too. Does that make me a Nazi? Yes, antisemitism is the bait du jour of Islamists these days. Dumb people will fall for this. Eventually, the common people of the Islamic world will wake up to the fact that the bait is for a switch and the real enemy is not the Jews but rather the despotic class of rulers in today’s Islamic world. It would go a long way to make peace between the Jews, Muslims and the West is we in the West would STOP SUPPORTING THOSE DESPOTIC REGIMES. Nazism, like Communism, was very popular in America too, especially during the Depression, but all that dried up once our economy expanded and the great middle class rose after WWII. As SmokinJoe pointed out, an educated, or in this case simply prosperous, people will abhor radicalism.
JMJ
Micky and Jersey – I think you guys are codependent…. ;-> Joke, that’s a joke…ha-ha….
g, it is unbelievable the things people do. And I am sure, if liberals, or anyone, delved into the reasons people do things, they would hear, from that person, their version of perfect logic that brought them to do whatever heinous deed they chose.
It doesn’t make wrong right.
Neither does two wrongs make a right.
But a baseball bat is sometimes required to get the attention of people….9/11 certainly finally got our attention….even though we’d had ample warning.
We now have a liberal democrat government. Soon…very soon….we will see if tea works.
Let us pray that no more have to die before the party starts.
Father….stay the hands of those who would kill….and protect the innocent from the guilty.
Amen.
If history teaches us anything, Carole, it’s 1) Democrat or Republican, American foreign policy basically remains the same, and 2) if you don’t understand how something works you probably aren’t going to be able to fix it. Don’t fall for all the bs partisan rhetoric about the “weak” Democrats and the “strong” Republicans. It’s fodder for fools. If you study history, you’ll note that really American foreign policy changes very little regardless of the partisan regime. And don’t fall for the “big stick” shtick. We’ve been approaching things pretty much the same way for decades, and things have only gotten worse. It’s not “new” thinking to drop the hammer harder. It’s the same ol’ same ol’. It’s time we try something else. It’s not about “tea parties” (a rather childish reference if you ask me). It’s about sane and rational hought. Pouring more of our wealth and blood into the war machine of empire will only make things worse for everyone but for a few wealthy war profiteers.
JMJ
timothy geithner — ny federal president, kissinger protege, former imf director, and cfr senior fellow — to be president-elect’s treasury sec. larry summers — former world bank economist and former treasury sec. under clinton — as director of his national economic council added to a list that includes clinton as sec. of state, former senate majority leader daschle as health and human services sec. (overseeing medicare and medicaid), and rahm emanuel — among other things, a freddie mac board member when that gse cooked its books to the tune of $5 billion and illegally financed the campaigns of congressmen — as white house chief of staff. apparently “change” is code for “cronies.” these are the same morons who helped get us into our predicament! change indeed. looks like the same old foxes in charge of the henhouse to me!
obama said that he and penny pritzker — friend and top fund-raiser, asked to head the commerce Dept — “share certain core values about how to run organizations, and hopefully that will inform how we manage the government.” pritzker is the former chair of now-bankrupt superior bank, which, according to the office of thrift supervision, “suffered as a result of its former high-risk business strategy, which was focused on the generation of significant volumes of subprime mortgage and automobile loans for securitization and sale in the secondary market. the bank also suffered from poor lending practices, improper record keeping and accounting, and ineffective board and management supervision.” this is how obama apparently hopes to manage government. and he’ll have plenty of help from congress. house majority leader steny hoyer said in a speech at the national press club: “A wide consensus of economists tells us that deficit spending is both the way out of a recession like this one and the way to prevent even more catastrophic decline.” of course, because doing more of the same thing which caused a problem is the sure way to solve it.”
i am still trying to stick to issue-related matters when it comes to criticizing the president-elect, but it sure doesn’t look good… and will all you mckinney-detractors at least give her due credit that she called for the end of the fed, and the selection of former comptroller david walker to be head of the treasury, or at least as auditor, overseeing the use of bailout funds.
“Many economists (Keynesians) believe that government spending ought to be countercyclical to dampen the impact of boom-bust cycles. In practice, everyone wants to be a Keynesian during bad times, boosting government spending, but there is no mechanism in place to force restraint, say through increased taxes, during boom times. This ‘restraint’ existed when the gold standard was in place as money was backed by a limited supply of gold. But such restraints were inconvenient and central bankers are now in charge.
There are cushions built into the system already; take unemployment benefits as an example: unemployment benefits reduce the impact of lost wages and stimulate demand during tough times. Note that European countries tend to have more generous unemployment benefits than the U.S.; further in the U.S., most states need to balance their budgets. As a result, when state revenues decline, the downturn in the U.S. economy is particularly exacerbated as government services are cut. There are some that argue that such spending cuts are healthy because the faster we weed out the excesses of the boom, the faster one finds a bottom upon which to have sustainable growth. Further, risk takers might be more cautious if they know that the government won’t bail them out, reducing the risks of systemic failures in the first place. Some may even recall that there used to be a breed called fiscal conservatives in Congress, an almost extinct species. Democrats and Republicans alike are all Keynesians these days.”
– The Road to Financial Ruin: We Have to Spend Money Now
by Axel Merk
Jersey, its an asinine analogy to even start with.
It raises terrible concern when someone’s thinking is to analogize mindless murderers with misbehaved children,
What Eric did was state how conservatives see the enemy for what they are by saying;
“the Butler offers quiet wisdom. He understands why terrorists do what they do.
“Some people just like to watch the world burn.”
In comparison to your relating them to kids shows just how pie eyed and ignorant you are to a real threat.
This is only re enforced by your constant minimization of the threat in just about every debate we’ve had.
Its also a stupid analogy because these are not bad kids crying out for attention as you so foolishly believe.
They want to kill people if it means killing themselves. Its hard to receive attention for your deeds when you’re dead.
“(child breaks or steals things for no apparent reason, teenage daughter dates long-haired “bad boys” etc).”
Absolutely wrong, delusional.
They have a reason and a definite motive with an apparent reason.
Jersey, the pirates are just a more recent example of events, I did not say they were active 1400 years ago. And your time line is wrong anyway. Barbary activities began to come into play at the tail end of the 16th century and was peaking in the 17th century. That’s more than a couple hundred years buddy.
Muslim have been accusing western civilizations since the time of their Crusades of rampant Imperialism, for most of the past 1400 years since they founded Islam they have been practicing imperialism and the expansion of Islam through all kinds of political and violent methods which is exactly what Mohammad wanted. Their hierarchy accomplished through violence, intimidation, and annihilation of entire civilizations and taking over entire continents along with being some of the largest purveyors of slavery we have seen.
So, yea, most definitely, this crap of there’s did start 1400 years ago.
Second of all, the Christians we see today are no longer the barbaric fire and brimstone radicals we saw up until a couple hundred years ago.
Unlike Muslims who have not changed with the times since its inception 1400 years ago many of their crude and violent means still exist today.
As a matter of fact, its only gotten worse.
Today , still, the punishment for deviating from Islam or not accepting it is death.
I don’t see Christians killing those who decide on a different faith today, DO YOU ???
JMJ;
“You just can’t make a simplistic assertion like “It is about a radical Islamic culture of violence that has existed for 1400 years.” It simply isn’t true”
Actually, it is true.
I’ve proven it with just a small basic rundown above and any fool can pick up a book and see that they were anything but “peaceful” during the dark ages as you so falsely assert.
http://www.primechoice.com/philosophy/jihad.htm
“The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa.
Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire).
Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.
The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great’s army in what is now Afghanistan.
Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route.
About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism.
Zoarasterianism was eliminated from Persia.
The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam.
In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.
Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam.”
You miss the point on relating radical Muslims to Nazi Germany.
Its not that they cant do or have the power to do what Nazi Germany did.
(YET)
ITS THAT THEY WANT TO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So yea, the left is weak when they take the position you take and say;
Islamic fundamentalists simply do not have the power to do what the Nazis did. Period.”
They idolize Hitler and the Nazi movement for what it stood for in terms of ethnic cleansing and world domination.
You yourself admit to being ignorant of this by saying;
“They want to be considered important players on the international scene.”
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
They want to be the “ONLY” players.
“I’ve read Mein Kampf too. Does that make me a Nazi? ”
Nice try, but weak.
The point is that the book is selling more amongst one population than another.
“Dumb people will fall for this.”
Best example would be how well Mao’s writings were selling during the 60’s among the radical left movement.
The closer you got to Haight and Ashbury the more copies were being sold.
Do I have to explain to you ?
Or maybe you would care to explain why all of Hezzbolla and Hamas salute in the style of “hail to Hitler”?
I stand by my point with relative facts and examples, you only have an opinion ending with “period”
Sorry bub, in a court room you would loose, big time.
“As SmokinJoe pointed out, an educated, or in this case simply prosperous, people will abhor radicalism. ”
Yes, but your typical evasive and disingenuous self forgot to include the examples offered that prove this not to be true.
Seeing as many of the terrorists captured so far have come from anything but oppressed little villages. But rather are some of the most educated affluent and financially stable individuals we have seen in any movement.
And by the way.
Your constant requests for people to study history is a bunch of crap.
When history has proven you wrong you blame it on the bias of the author.
When it supports your point you are all of a sudden the grand ole “student of history” who’s selective input of world events somehow elevates you to a level of knowledge that makes you superior to those of us who can actually think.
No matter how far back we go, or what rendition of events you choose to apply to today’s circumstances.
It is what it is.
And for you , as a “student of history” to boil it all down to nothing more than bunch of “unruly children” is a level of ignorance so damn scary that it speaks directly to nothing more than defeat.
Here’s the perfect example;
“It’s time we try something else.”
that’s what was said about Iraq from 2002 up until recently when things began improving. As a matter of fact most of those in command are saying the war is won, yet the situation is still fragile.
Had we decided to try something new, as the delusional left wished, we would not be seeing the success that a steady drive of the same method along with the surge which, to use your words was to “drop the hammer harder.” gave us.
That drop worked Holmes.
Yes, the left is weak, impatient kids who when they don’t get what they want immediately are all too quick to resort to anything but consistency and a steady hand, a tenacious drive, unrelentingly placing one foot in front of the other and not faltering from the goal or the method.
This is one reason why Obama won.
Impatient little kids who want everything right away. If it takes too long for hard work and perseverance to pay off by sticking with a plan they will try anything, as long as its different with the hopes, like a crap shoot, that it’ll work.
Or, what’s been most popular lately is to just be bailed out.
You guys suck.
Pobaldy.
I have to agree that what we are seeing is simply a return to the same mentallity of the 90s that put this whole mess in motion to begin with.
Quick comment – my parents are from India, and the person who states that the Muslims were peaceful for centuries is ignorant of history. My parents learned a lot more about Asian history than most Americans, and the Muslims have a long history of conquest. It goes back way before the Barbary Pirates.
For example, Lebanon used to be mostly Christian. So was Turkey. So were many other countries. How did they become Muslim? Through conquest. In the 7th and 8th centuries, Arab hordes left their Peninsula in waves of violent conquest. Yes, there was often a flowering of culture under the Islamic caliphate, and this culture was often superior to Dark Age European barbarism, but this was not due to a “peaceful” Islam. Rather, the Muslims often adopted the practices of the more sophisticated cultures they conquered. And they were willing to let infidels live at peace within their cities as long as they paid a “dhimmi tax” – so, for example, Jewish physicians were free to practice under the Moors, but they paid a huge tax (I believe it was as much as a third of their income.) This was obviously better than the condition of Jews in many European kingdoms.
Now, this tells us that, at the time, Muslims were more tolerant of Jews than most of the Christian kingdoms, but that does not equate to Muslims being peaceful. They weren’t.
They conquered India, parts of Spain, and they were on their way to conquering France when Charles “the Hammer” Martel turned them back at the Battle of Tours. They also were fighting as far North as Russia, and made inroads into Africa. The African slave trade was carried out mostly by Arabs, and to this day, their word for “black person” is khefir, which is also their word for slave.
The Muslims in India ruled the Hindu population, sometimes well, when the Muslim ruler was a “secular” Muslim, sometimes with great brutality when he took his faith seriously. That is because the Koran carries many injunctions against infidels.
For anyone who wants to know what motivates Muslims – read the Koran and the haditha. It seems that the more a Muslim takes their faith seriously, the more they justify barbarism against non-Muslims, but the secular Muslims are usually very nice people. A surfeit of Islam seems to be the culprit.
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