The democrats had the debate they should have had ages ago, without the annoying nuisances of the smaller candidates. In the same way the republicans could not eliminate Rupaul, the democrats had to deal with Bill Richardson, although at least he is respectful.
Charlie Gibson got the debate off to a very intelligent start by bringing up the issue of nuclear terrorism. I was expecting the big 3 to blame President Bush without stating what they would do. They were asked how aggressively they would go after Al Queda.
Barack Obama reiterated that he would go into Pakistan without their permission if necessary. It was a flub then, and still is. Obama insisted that Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton, heads of the 9/11 Commission, stated the same thing. He said we could lock down loose nuclear weapons in 4 years. When the moderator told Obama he was basically supporting the Bush Doctrine, he insisted this was not the case, and then did not say why.
John Edwards would lead a long term initiative to rid the world of nuclear weapons. I believe he would click his heels together 3 times and call it 1940.
Bill Richardson stated that going into Iraq inflamed the Muslim world. He bashed President Bush and Pervez Musharraf. He stated we should ask Musharraf to step aside. This is the dumbest idea out there, which says a lot for the democrats. Going after Musharraf is irresponsible, and wrong. Richardson did not state what he would do if Musharraf decided not to fire himself.
Hillary Clinton spoke of trying to targeting Bin Laden in 1998. She is full of garbage, but at least comes across as an adult. She stated that we need more NATO troops, and Predator weapons. She stated that removing Musharraf could have consequences that could hurt America in terms of who replaces him. She then stated that President Bush walked away from Afghanistan.
Richardson continued to insist that we remove Musharraf. He was still wrong.
Obama stated that Iraq was “a distraction and a war of choice.” He stated that we have to get Pakistan’s agreement before we act, contradicting his own comments from several minutes earlier.
The candidates were asked what we would do the day after a nuclear attack, and what should have been done to prevent it.
Edwards stated that our immediate response is to find out who attacked us, and go get them. He then stated the President must react calmly.
Obama stated that retaliation is a must, but that we must rebuild the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.
Clinton stated that there should be one person responsible for marshaling resources. She mentioned port security issues, but did not say what she would do about it. She then stated that we will go after safe havens, which makes me wonder how she can repeat the Bush Doctrine while disagreeing with him.
Richardson stated that he was responsible for securing stockpiles while he was Energy Secretary. He would immediately seek negotiations with the Soviet Union, which actually does not exist anymore. He then spoke about reducing greenhouse gases, which has nothing to do with reacting to an act of war against us. Richardson supports realism and human rights. So he would help people worldwide but not be ready for an attacking against America.
The candidates were then asked about the concept of change, and how Obama according to Hillary needs to be vetted.
Hillary had been doing well up to this point, but she blathered on this one. She then stated that Obama could have a debate with himself, especially on health care. She stated she has no problem with scrutiny towards her.
Obama stated that the AP people who made the vetting comments were quoting Hillary campaign workers. Obama explained his health care plan is different from Hillary and Edwards in that the people he meets simply cannot afford health care. Obama rejects the idea that people will refuse to cover themselves voluntarily. He is wrong, but it was a respectful disagreement. On payroll taxes are out of wack, but Obama cited Warren Buffett, who is supporting Hillary.
Hillary stated that Obama does not go far enough because there are only mandates for covering children, not all people. She stated that Obama went after Edwards for changing positions, and then listed Obama’s changes on issues such as the Patriot Act.
Obama reiterated that mandating health care for children is necessary because they have no choice. He meekly stated that Hillary was distorting his record, and that his method of reaching out is why they liked him in Iowa.
Edwards wisely stated he and Obama are agents for change, which brings out attacks from the forces of status quo, aka Hillary. Edwards hit hard by stating that Hillary did not attack when she was ahead, but is now because she is losing.
Hillary again mentioned that change is about working hard, not just talking about it. She angrily responded that she has made change for 35 years. She looked like she was on the verge of a meltdown.
Richardson stated that he has been through hostage negotiations thatw ere more civil than this. He spoke in a very conciliatory manner. He stated that experience is a good thing, and that his being a governor, giving health care to kids under 12, balancing budgets, etc, were positive things. His head was far up Hillary’s hindquarters, angling for the VP slot.
Edwards stated that they had differences on how to fight the middle class, and that entrenched special interests stand in the way of change. He stated that not all corporations are bad, that Costco and AT & T were good because they were unionizing.
Obama spoke of his helping to pass ethics reform, and that voters want transparent government, and are tired of being told falsehoods. The change he wants is for government to be more responsive.
Charlie Gibson then shocked the entire room by announcing that many signs indicate that the surge has worked. He is now the best moderator of the entire campaign, forcing candidates to deal with tough realities that conflict with their world view. He challenged the candidates to state that the surge has worked, reminding Clinton that she stated a “willful suspension of disbelief would be required for that.”
Hillary blamed the Iraqi political situation for negating the surge, stating that 23 dead Americans in December meant we should bring the troops home. She did not see any reason why they should remain beyond today. She would start bringing them home within 60 days of taking office.
Richardson called the Iraq situation a massive failure. He stated that nobody has participated in a regional solution, which is totally false. He then switched to domestic policy, stating the war should be ended within one year, leaving no troops behind.
Obama stated that we lowered the bar for success. He reiterated his opposition to the war from the beginning. He stated that all the surge did was reduce violence to levels of two years ago, but could not state it worked. He even had the audacity of (something) to state that the democrats winning in 2006 reduced the violence. He was now tied with Richardson for the stupidest debate comment.
Edwards stated that he would listen to military generals, but that we should pull out anyway. That was a head scratcher. Then again, he is a double talking trial lawyer. He would pull 40-50,000 troops immediately. They would all be out within 9-10 months, but he would listen to the generals. He said we must end the occupation.
Richardson said you had to get everybody out, before there could be political reconciliation. He kept rambled about domestic issues, when the question asked about foreign policy.
Hillary offered platitudes, but looked cerebral and sensible in doing so. She spoke about the translators and others that helped. She then stated that President Bush was not planning for withdrawal. She is right about him, and he is right for staying.
When Hillary was asked about being “double teamed” by Obama and Edwards, she cackled, which she does when she is angry. She was asked about why people like Obama and Edwards more than her.
She replied, “That hurts my feelings…but I will try to go on. I do not think I am that bad.”
Obama replied, “I think you’re likable enough.”
She then calmly laced into President Bush, and offered her 35 years of experience. She stated she liked and respected Obama and Edwards, but that she stands by her record. She states that she embodies change, and that being the first woman President is change.
Obama was then asked a softball. The republicans were asked what he thought of him, and he was asked what he thought of them.
He calmly replied that he was alternating between the republicans and football. The moderator tried to test him by asking how the Redskins did. He replied that they lost. Had he not known, he would have been caught lying, so it was a good save. It made him look human. He then stated that the republicans would all continue the policies of George W. Bush, and he disagrees with them all.
Asked about Thompson calling him a liberal, Obama stated that any democrat would face that barrage. He stated that people are losing faith in government and politicians, and he can create a working majority to actually get things done.
Richardson was asked if prior experience is necessary. Richardson stated it was important. He balanced budgets, lowered taxes, among other things. Whether this is true is irrelevant. He is the only Governor on stage. He is the only one that has negotiated with foreign governments, had the highest national security clearance, and dealt with the North Koreans.
The moderator asked if Richardson could get things done now when he couldn’t as Energy Secretary since the problems are worse now. Richardson listed his accomplishments, but they were standard work of a cabinet secretary. He then went into what we should do, glo0ssing over what he failed to do. He praised Al Gore, and stated he was glad Gore stayed out of the race. Richardson said that relative youth was not a disqualifier because JFK was young, and JFK helped us get a man to the moon.
Edwards refused to go after Obama’s youth and inexperience. He then went into his standard stump speech about corporate lobbyists. He again mentioned his father the mill worker, even though his father owned the mill. When asked about his empty Senate record, he spoke about the Patients Bill of Rights in 2002, which he shepherded right after the democrats briefly took over the Senate. He said the bill was written by him, Ted Kennedy and John McCain.
I guess he is trying to destroy the McCain campaign by praising him. Also, even if Edwards is not believable to some, he believes what he is saying, or at least looks like it.
When Obama stated that he had put restrictions on lobbyists in terms of meals, the moderator pointed out that the law said they could not eat sitting down, but could eat standing up. Obama meekly pointed out that people eat less when standing, but it was a very weak response. Edwards defended Obama, enjoying the tag team against Hillary.
Obama again emphasized the need to have a working majority.
Hillary, again angrily, stated that the evening needed a “reality break.” The bill Edwards spoke about never became law. Edwards stated that the President vetoed it, but nevertheless, it did not pass, so nothing was done. “Words are not action,” and Edwards did not get things done.
Hillary stated that Obama had a lobbyist as his New Hampshire campaign chair, which he disputed. When asked if she can do what Obama and Edwards cannot, she replied “absolutely.” She stated what she worked on, but none of it actually passed, so she was the exact same as Edwards on this issue.
Charlie Gibson stated that they all claimed change, but nothing got done. All 4 candidates tried to shout over each other to speak first.
Hillary stated that she fought with her husband to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations.
Edwards railed about corporations strangling the middle class. He then cited Teddy Roosevelt as a trust buster.
Obama praised Bill Clinton for balancing budgets, but that it did not lead to a working majority to get things done beyond that. Words do matter, because words can inspire people, and while he does use lofty rhetoric, it does make people feel better, which does matter. The point was valid.
Richardson again did everything but recommend that the group all hug. His cabinet would be diverse, but he “would not overdo the republicans.” Richardson makes the audience laugh. He is likable. He is also irrelevant.
Edwards…again…went after moneyed special interests. These people “cannot be niced to death.” He then praised Obama and Richardson, leaving out Hillary.
Bringing up global warming, the candidates were asked if they were against a carbon tax because it was a bad idea or political suicide. AL Gore and Chris Dodd favor it.
Richardson said it was a bad idea because it was not a mandate, and gets passed on to consumers, hurting the economy. Cap and trade is better because it is a mandate.
Obama agreed with Richardson and said that he proposed the cap and trade system, and that a 100% auction was necessary. Obama politely disagreed that there were costs to cap and trade in terms of retrofitting, which would be passed on to consumers.
I had no idea what either of them were talking about, but they sounded believable.
Obama insisted that the sacrifices would benefit us in the long run.
Hillary stated that the economy is slipping into recession. She is wrong, but she is not an economist. She said we have to require utilities to move towards conservation. I am not sure how she can force them to do this. We also need a low income heating oil program. She did not say how she would pay for it.
Charlie Gibson stated that consumers spend America out of recessions, and before he could mention why raising taxes was bad, Hillary jumped in. In fact, Gibson stated that two professors could make a combined $200,000, and they would get hit by the higher taxes on the supposed “wealthy.”
Hillary stated that George W. Bush’s tax cuts did not help the middle class. Yes they did, I am living proof.
Edwards used wildly inflated numbers to describe the destitute situation in America, and that trade deals are bleeding America. Edwards stated that 20-30 million people could lose their jobs in the next few years, especially college graduates. I am not sure if we even have that many college graduates. He stated the income gap is widening.
Obama offered a glimmer of honesty by stating that some of these problems preceded George. W Bush. Obama would close loopholes and havens. This is not original, but Edwards and Hillary were blatantly lying, and he was not.
Richardson for the Milli Vanillionth time mentioned his executive experience. He mentioned the line item veto, which was ruled unconstitutional. He stated we needed to invest more in math and science, pointing out that education was not dealt with in the debate. He stated that China and India are graduating many more engineers.
Charlie Gibson was fabulous, but the last question was lame. He asked the candidates what statements, if any, in past debates, they would take back.
Hillary ignored the question and attacked republicans. She stated the democrats actually talked about issues during the debates.
Richardson actually answered the question. He stated that he admired Byron WHite, who Kennedy appointed. He then found out Byron White was against civil rights and Roe vs Wade. He said he was totally wrong.
Edwards was wrong about teasing Hillary about her jacket in the past.
Obama danced around the question and offered platitudes. Obama is as Obama does. Actually, he does not do, but he says stuff.
While all the candidates are disasters on policy, debates are about performance. Obama was crisp and cool most of the time, but had a major foreign policy gaffe.
Richardson rambled, kissed rumpus, and repeatedly emphasized his experience, but he also had a major foreign policy gaffe as well.
Hillary was winning the first half of the debate, but her angry response midway through the debate should be seen as a meltdown. Whether the liberal media lets her off the hook for it, time will shortly tell. George Stephanopoulis noticed it. She looked angry.
John Edwards was his snake oil salesman self, but again, debates are about performance. He made no mistakes.
John Edwards won this debate.
Charlie Gibson gets a phenomenal review for asking tough questions, and being respectful. He was the best moderator in all of the debates.
eric
